D&D 5E Psionics in Tasha

[Weiley31]

Still laments the loss of the Psi-Talent Die.
I think the whole "Low Number good, High Number bad" threw a lot of longtime DND players off. Especially where getting a high roll was the end goal when rolling was concerned. I wish somebody on DMguilds would work an expansion on it.

 

[Weiley31]

Why? That stuff was really cool and allowed for a lot of cool feat, spell and ability interactions.

A lot of people thought that having an extra dice at the table, to keep track of, was too much. Also it promoted the idea of "Low Number good, High Number bad" which is something that most DND players aren't totally used to.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Pit Fiends require components for their innate spellcasting, but thanks for playing the, "I'm going to deliberately avoid seeing things." game again.

And of course the psionic innate spellcasting which doesn't use the exact spell rules, as it does not require components.

But even that isn't good enough, because pointing out other magical effects, that are Psionic themed, but do not require any components, still get said they aren't Psionic because they aren't called that. IE the Beholder's Telekinesis.

So, even if you point to not needing components as the only thing that makes Psionics Psionics, you need to have that and be called Psionics for you to agree it is Psionics.

Someone should have let the writer know he was making an error. Go ahead and look up literally every psionic caster in the MM and then look up every non-psionic caster in the MM. I'll wait while you do. Then you can come back here and say how it's only the psionic spell casters that don't need components.

Then you can look at every incarnation of psionics in the UA and note how they all

You realize that he was posting the one about "Psionics", right? It is right there in the text.


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Ill restate my stab at it.

You create a susbsysyem called POWERS, and using existing spells and abilities already designed for the game you create new and interesting uses that are accessed by "psionics". This echos the power lists that monks and warlocks choose from that is native to their particular base class.

I will take Telekinesis as an example and use Control Water as a template for how it could be changed up. Telekinesis (the spell) already has a couple different uses listed in the text. You could separate those different use cases into different "power point" cost sub abilities or roll in different use cases to flesh out the power until one power choice provides a menu of different options at your disposal depending on how many points you want to spend on the use. This is exactly like the menu of choices Control Water offers, only instead of each choice being the same level of spell power in magnitude,the Power system allows one heading to have low to high powered options it allows.

Telekinesis
1pp: Slightly stronger mage armor effect but with concentration.
1pp: gain fly speed for 1 round (bonus action)
3pp: force choke power
5pp: move people around like the spell
Etc....

You make a set of these powers (12 or so) to represent the different common themes of psionics like telepathy, mind control, jedi powers, etc....

Now you have easily accomplished several things.
1. You have given a new base class a set of unique powers to play with that in combination allow different feels of psion.
2. You have connected the spell and the power TK in some way to each other to help build the fiction that while both are magic effects, they are distinct from each other.
3. You now have design space to build a base class psion detached from the baggage of the arcane casting sorcerer.
4. You didnt have to playtest 100 new things since you aren't reinventing the wheel, just mixing and matching themed abilities from various sources that already exist.

It seems like a decent idea, but that is basically the design of the Mystic. Which was rejected multiple times. so, it might be a good Fan Homebrew, but WoTC has been told repeatedly that is not the type of thing people want to see.

Also, what you have done, is basically just obfuscate the fact that they are spells and bundle them together. I know it feels different, but the end result is the same, which makes me wonder why you couldn't just use the Spell Point Variant and get the exact same feel from a spell and slot designed class.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

It seems like a decent idea, but that is basically the design of the Mystic. Which was rejected multiple times. so, it might be a good Fan Homebrew, but WoTC has been told repeatedly that is not the type of thing people want to see.

Yeah but it’s like claiming that there’s no audience for Frank Zappa’s music because the general public thinks it’s too experimental. Psionics has always been a niche thing in D&D. You can come up with the mainstream version, but it’s an empty promise because, in so doing, you’re throwing away the things that make it popular among its fans. I don’t see why some people in this thread seem determined to convince everyone that the Coldplay version of psionics is the only version that makes sense. I’m not sure they understand the appeal at all.

 

[Chaosmancer]

@Maxperson

At the end of it, we seem to have come down to two points that define Psionics.

1) Has no Verbal, Somatic or Material components

2) It is called Psionics


And point two seems more important, because I can show you a magical effect, with no components involved, and you will say it is not Psionics because it does not have the Psionic label. And that creates a problem, because you are focused on two point that are not mechanical differences in most people's eyes.

We don't generally care if a monster needs or doesn't need components. It doesn't matter. And labels alone does not make a rule set. Which makes it so confusing that you are so adamant that that alone is all that is needed to be Psionics.

 

[Aldarc]

Yeah but it’s like claiming that there’s no audience for Frank Zappa’s music because the general public thinks it’s too experimental. Psionics has always been a niche thing in D&D. You can come up with the mainstream version, but it’s an empty promise because, in so doing, you’re throwing away the things that make it popular among its fans. I don’t see why some people in this thread seem determined to convince everyone that the Coldplay version of psionics is the only version that makes sense. I’m not sure they understand the appeal at all.

I would argue that the fantasy of psionics (albeit in various manifestations, no pun intended) are actually fairly prevalent in a lot of tabletop fantasy games. The idea of psionics as a problem, IMHO, has been mostly a uniquely D&D problem.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Yeah but it’s like claiming that there’s no audience for Frank Zappa’s music because the general public thinks it’s too experimental. Psionics has always been a niche thing in D&D. You can come up with the mainstream version, but it’s an empty promise because, in so doing, you’re throwing away the things that make it popular among its fans. I don’t see why some people in this thread seem determined to convince everyone that the Coldplay version of psionics is the only version that makes sense. I’m not sure they understand the appeal at all.

To follow this analogy, Frank Zappa is a third party provider, making an indy product. Your ask is more akin to the industry as a whole featuring Frank Zappa as the signature release for a given month. The audience is there for the first, but not the second.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah but it’s like claiming that there’s no audience for Frank Zappa’s music because the general public thinks it’s too experimental. Psionics has always been a niche thing in D&D. You can come up with the mainstream version, but it’s an empty promise because, in so doing, you’re throwing away the things that make it popular among its fans. I don’t see why some people in this thread seem determined to convince everyone that the Coldplay version of psionics is the only version that makes sense. I’m not sure they understand the appeal at all.

You misunderstood my point.

Make your homebrew version. It will be great.

But, that route is a route that was already rejected. Maybe it means that the version WoTC is going to release is a soulless empty shell that no one will like, but you can't expect them to go back and make something that they were told not enough people wanted.

To torture your metaphor, this is like calling up your Local Pop Radio Station and telling them that they should play Frank Zappa's music, even though they tried it in a test audience and were told that not enough people wanted that to take up that air time. It doesn't mean Zappa's music is bad, or that you shouldn't make your own play list, but it seems kind of bizzarre to say that the Radio Station is somehow wrong and should go against their own data.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

To torture your metaphor, this is like calling up your Local Pop Radio Station and telling them that they should play Frank Zappa's music, even though they tried it in a test audience and were told that not enough people wanted that to take up that air time.

That’s a fair point but that’s why lots of pop radio stations have a late night AOR show: because they want to cater to the demand for niche music.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

But even that isn't good enough, because pointing out other magical effects, that are Psionic themed, but do not require any components, still get said they aren't Psionic because they aren't called that. IE the Beholder's Telekinesis.

So, even if you point to not needing components as the only thing that makes Psionics Psionics, you need to have that and be called Psionics for you to agree it is Psionics.



You realize that he was posting the one about "Psionics", right? It is right there in the text.


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It seems like a decent idea, but that is basically the design of the Mystic. Which was rejected multiple times. so, it might be a good Fan Homebrew, but WoTC has been told repeatedly that is not the type of thing people want to see.

Also, what you have done, is basically just obfuscate the fact that they are spells and bundle them together. I know it feels different, but the end result is the same, which makes me wonder why you couldn't just use the Spell Point Variant and get the exact same feel from a spell and slot designed class.

My system isn't just moving around spells and calli Ng it something different because the different use cases are combinations of existing spells, class powers, race powers, item powers, and anything else appropriate that fits the POWER theme. It also includes some amount of new or modified existing content , just not 100% new or modified.

So if nothing else I've shown there COULD be a distinct feeling psionics system that isn't any more difficult mechanically than spellcasting and ki power use. You can argue about why that is all you like, but it's not like it would have been hard to come up with something more distinct than another sorcerer and some new spells.