Published rules favor casters?

[sfedi]

Do you agree that when creating new features for the game, non-casters get the shaft?

Situation:
-a new spell is usable by any spell caster, save classes that have a limit on known spells (Bards, Sorcerers, etc.)
-a new (non-casting related) feat, while expanding the options of (non-caster) characters is a one-per-character choice

A caster can change his spell selection each day, but a non-caster can't change his feats from day to day.

So, the addition of Spells, Feats, PrC, etc. favor more the casters.

 

[Crothian]

Just because a new spell is created doesn't mean that the caster automatically gets it. Wizards get two new spells a level and ones they find. That ican be very limited. Divine casters are more problematic.

 

[Corsair]

I'd say that only really is 100% true for clerics and druids. Sorcerers and bards still have to choose spells, wizards, though they don't have a theoretical limit, have a practical limit based on funds and time.

But there are numerous OTHER things you could take into account when saying the rules favor casters.

1) Lets say you're a 9th level transmutation specialist, with three 5th level spell slots. You could memorize a Baleful Polymorph, a Hold Monster, and am empowered fireball. No matter what you come up against, you can choose which saving throw you want to target. A Frenzied Berserker, as dangerous as he is, can't choose to change his method of attack to suit the situation.

2) Look at spells like Tenser's Transformation, Shapechange, Divine Power, and the like. Who needs fighters? Clerics and druids can already fight as well as fighters from first level and up, and a wizard with enough preparation has little to worry about from most melee monsters, as long as they can out-maneuver them.

3) In the non-combat sense, unless you're constantly running into anti-magic fields, chances are the rogue will become less and less useful, as many of his skills can be replicated by magic. The only advantage the rogue has is that not every wizard will have a wand of Knock (though they should!) so being able to use the skills over and over helps.

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All things considered, there are many much larger issues at work than just the publishing of new spells.

 

[yennico]

I'd say that only really is 100% true for clerics and druids. Sorcerers and bards still have to choose spells, wizards, though they don't have a theoretical limit, have a practical limit based on funds and time.

Agreed.

1) Lets say you're a 9th level transmutation specialist, with three 5th level spell slots. You could memorize a Baleful Polymorph, a Hold Monster, and am empowered fireball. No matter
what you come up against, you can choose which saving throw you want to target.

You could only memorize these spells if none of them belong to your opposed school If these spells do not belong to your opposed schools this statement is true.

A Frenzied Berserker, as dangerous as he is, can't choose to change his method of attack to suit the situation.

A Berserker can choose his way to attack a foe. He can decide:
- to use his rage ability or not.
- to use a feat like power attack or any other feat he has or to use it not
- to try to disarm the opponent
- to try to trip the opponent
- etc..

2) Look at spells like Tenser's Transformation,

Tenser´s Transformation is a level 6 spell. To cast this spell you have at least a level 11 wizard.
A level 11 fighting class PC has the same BAB as this wizard but the fighting class PC has more HPs, more feats and the equipment (armor, weapons). The wizard looses with this spell his most effective wepon: spells. If somebody dispells the armor spell of this wizard he will be dead meat..

Shapechange, Divine Power, and the like. Who needs fighters? Clerics and druids can already fight as well as fighters from first level and up, and a wizard with enough preparation has little to worry about from most melee monsters, as long as they can out-maneuver them.

Clerics and druids are good at fighting but not as good as a pure fighter. Spellcasters can boost their abilities but the spells can be dispelled, end at certain time, etc...
Fighters can use many of their abilities all the time.

3) In the non-combat sense, unless you're constantly running into anti-magic fields, chances are the rogue will become less and less useful, as many of his skills can be replicated by magic. The only advantage the rogue has is that not every wizard will have a wand of Knock (though they should!) so being able to use the skills over and over helps.

Not all skills of a rogue can be duplicated. A waizard also do not have the spell find traps A wizard or cleric can not disable a trap or a magical trap. Some traps automatically reset themself if driggered so a wizard can not send summonded creature to disable the trap. A spellcaster don not have a high spot-, hide or listen-skill.

A rogue can convince an ambassador by a good diplomacy roll that the kingdom does not need to go to war with the kingdom the PCs are staying. A wizard can achieve this goal by casting a spell like dominate person but casting this spell can be very dangerous in this situation. If the spell fails ....

 

[Berandor]

The published rules favor casters, yes. Especially if you leave out the sorcerer

But magic in D&D just gets very powerful over the levels, so you either house rule it, accept it, or change the system. I'd say accept it.

 

[Li Shenron]

Do you agree that when creating new features for the game, non-casters get the shaft?

At least it seemed to me that the 3.5 revision did the opposite.

Tenser's Transformation cannot make one say "who needs fighters?" more than healing potions make you say "who needs clerics?" or Use Magic Device and scrolls/wands make you say "who needs wizards?".

 

[Piratecat]

I have a house rule that says "in order to learn a new cleric spell, you must remove one of the existing spells from your spell list." This sets a hard limit of how many spells the cleric can choose while preparing spells, and it makes the player make some tough choices. This has gone a long way to helping maintain balance.

 

[diaglo]

I have a house rule that says "in order to learn a new cleric spell, you must remove one of the existing spells from your spell list." This sets a hard limit of how many spells the cleric can choose while preparing spells, and it makes the player make some tough choices. This has gone a long way to helping maintain balance.

i use the OD&D rules. and make clerics research new spells.

so they have a list of spells they are taught during training to choose. but any new spell ...(OoC that the player wants to introduce to the campaign)... has to be researched.

the cost for researching spells is quite high in OD&D.

 

[Rel]

I have a house rule that says "in order to learn a new cleric spell, you must remove one of the existing spells from your spell list." This sets a hard limit of how many spells the cleric can choose while preparing spells, and it makes the player make some tough choices. This has gone a long way to helping maintain balance.

I don't limit Clerics and Druids in this particular way but I did decide that they don't immediately gain access to every new spell in the splatbook just because we adopted it for our game. The Core Rules are the stock spells that a PC comes with. If he wants to be able to cast splatbook spells then he has to find someone to teach them to him (I make this about as common as a Wizard finding a new scroll of a splatbook spell) or make a series of Spellcraft Checks.

 

[Ravellion]

The thing to take into account is that Magic in D&D basically comes from two sources: items and casters. Reduce or increase the one and it will make the other respectively seem more powerful or less powerful. In a standard setting, I think the casters have a slight advantage.

Add more spells, and you generally increase the options of the casters (though not in my game, bacause I only use spontaneous casters, using UA rules), and with that, the power. This will have an adverse effects on those who are dependant on items for their share of magic power.

However, I think the most important aspect of power for casters being increased in most games I have experienced is mostly due to that party having only one or two encounters per day. Again, having extra options simply inflates this problem.

Rav