Publishers and Reviews

Re: Re: Publishers and Reviews

I used to put pretty gnat's-arse analyses of price per page, but I started getting sarcastic jabs about buying a ream of paper... :rolleyes: C'mon guys, it IS a factor. Not the only factor, but a factor. :p I don't bother putting price per page anymore, but I do maintain a database so I know who lies about where on the value scale, and will usually comment if a product is particularly pricey or cheap for the page count.

As for text density, I used to harp on it a lot, but not so much anymore. Some are still better than others, but notable the publishers who used to be really bad at it have improved drastically over the last year. Seeing 3rd party publishers that have text as dense as WotC's is not near so rare as it used to be.
 

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AaronLoeb said:
The one area where I did mean to slip into actual "I take issue with this" is the general tone of "style just doesn't matter; only idiots care about art in their game books" posts, which I see more often on other sites. I think art and style matter a lot, and I like to hear about it in reviews from a subjective, analytic perspective.
It's obvious I prefer function over form. When I was active in M:tG I could not stand any of the magazines dedicated to it. They had style. But you couldn't read them. Pages with white text on black and deep purple backgrounds; images smeared across the text on the page. You were supposed to like the look of the magazine, not read it. (Wired magazine was one of the first mainstream magazine to be like this.)

I admit. I like good artwork in an RPG book. I don't like artwork that has nothing to do with topic at hand or that takes up whole pages. In PDFs I hate the frilly borders. They devour ink when you print the PDF. Frilly borders are only somewhat annoying in printed books. Although I would prefer that chapters in printed books be discernable at a glance at the side of closed book's pages like the staggers letters in a dictionary or encyclopedia are visible. That way I could use my eyes to jump straight to chapter 6 based on where my thumb ends up on the book.

Slipping back into author mode, the best part of any review of my stuff is what the reviewer liked, what caught his fancy, what made him say, "I will work this into my game no matter what." So, hopefully reviews don't go completely to the summary side.

Joe
 

AaronLoeb said:
1) Value per page. I've seen this done in a lot of forms; sometimes actually dividing the retail cost by the number of pages to come up with actual pennies-per-page analysis.

I thought this was absurd too -- until I started reviewing d20 adventures. Actually, I think rpg **systems** are more likely to be reviewed for quality over quantity. But with adventure supplements, I know my audience wants to know how many game sessions worth of stuff they're getting. That's where the "pennies per page" comes in -- though it's hardly the only basis of the review.

My thoughts are that since indie publishers have different printers and volumes, they're going to have widely different prices. The consumer doesn't care about that. But he does care about how much play value he's getting, and **part** of play value (for adventures, at least) certainly is quantity.

I'd actually go so far as to say computer games **should** have an estimation of how many hours of gameplay they have. My guess is that there's so many hours of gameplay in most computer adventure games, that the average game player doesn't care. This isn't the case for adventures.

AaronLoeb said:
2) Text Density. I don't see this in any other type of reviewing. It’s an actual analysis of how jam-packed the layout is! I know my surprise at this will seem positively provincial, since it’s so commonplace. But honestly, I can’t imagine any other printed form being reviewed in this regard – most consumers don’t notice things like font size or typeface (unless it’s truly awful and draws attention). Analysis of these factors seems a requirement for an RPG review. That fascinates me.

My guess is that most products we're familiar with being reviewed (ie. mainstream stuff) have their standards worked out. But the d20 field is still young, and discrepancies in what should be a standardized product (I mean, fantasy gaming material **has** been around 30-some years) stand out. Right now, I'm reviewing one of the best dungeon adventures I read, and, I swear, ten years from now I'll need a magnifying glass to see the maps.


AaronLoeb said:
3) Raw Facts over Analysis. I've seen numerous comments and posts about reviews to the effect of: "I prefer objective reviews." What's clear is that a lot of people prefer an RPG review with little opinion, comparison to other products, value judgment or anything else that is actually (in my mind) the hallmark of critical analysis. The "best" RPG reviews list the chapters, their contents, and explain whether the art, writing and system work in those chapters is good – in as objective terms as possible.

Most reviewers are fans, and readers are smart enough not to trust the subjective analysis of the reviewer, and experienced enough to draw their conclusions from objective information. (Contrast this to stock investors who can't understand beyond the stock analyst's recommendation.) Furthermore, much of the fun of roleplaying is **not** directly from the material (sorry) but from the GM who uses it, and the players who play it. Movies and video games are seen as entertainment. Roleplaying game materials are seen as "inspiration", "source material", and "time savers". Thus, roleplaying games are less films and videogames than a movie script, or other unfinished product. And GMs, as directors, want to know if the product is right for **them**. No two GMs have the same style of play (some like inspirational source material, I like details), so one reviewer's subjective opinion doesn't matter much to another reader. But GMs who read reviews have played enough to know what content works for them, which, I believe, is why objective material works fine.

Mind you, when I read a review, I try to mention what target the product aims at. For example, a NPC sourcebook I'll be reviewing could either have a list of generic NPCs you could drop into an adventure, or colorful PCs that serve as inspirational material.

AaronLoeb said:
4) Substance vs. Style. The biggest "feud" in RPG reviewing that I've seen, I think (and not so much on this site), is whether anything that can be called "stylistic" even matters. I often see reviews that say "the art is bad" or "there are tons of typos" get responses of "that doesn't matter; only idiots care about that stuff. Are the rules good?"

It's weird. It used to be that you **played** RPGs. Now, there are so many esoteric products that you **read** RPGs. And the audience is split between the coffee table readers, and the GMs who don't want the players to even know what sourcebooks they're using. Not to mention the denial / guilt of buying a $40 product that you're not even going to "use" (ie. play).

One thought: Besides giving away free product, ask the reviewer for a link to a previously written review, provide a request of what you would like to see in a review, and/or send a link to a review you thought was well-written. Then include **more** free product. Nothing helps more than an unexpected surprise!


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
 

jmucchiello said:
Wired magazine was one of the first mainstream magazine to be like this.

Actually, RayGun is often considered the ancestor of "illegible" design. If you're interested in the subject check out THE END OF PRINT, a collection of David Carson's work (designer of RayGun). Ignore his second book, SECOND SIGHT, since it goes too far into the experimental works of others.
 

Just seeing if we have any more publishers, reviewers, or anyone else that has anything else to say on this topic. So fdar this has been a great thread full of insightful information. Thanks for all who have participated.
 

It looks like this topic is actually resting peacefully, but someone pointed it out to me and I thought I might make a couple of contributions from angles that don't seem to have been covered yet: reviews editor and non-game publishing marketeer.

I'm the gaming editor for Black Gate magazine (the fantasy magazine that MThibault reviews for, actually) and there are a number of considerations that I deal with on that level that don't seem to come up in the broader reviews boards. MThibault touched on one of them - space. Black Gate is a print magazine and our average review is only about 600 words. Reviewing on the web is luxury - you can ramble as much as you want (I know, I used to do reviews for SFSite.com). At 600 words, a review has to be really tight - get in, do the set-up, say your piece, and get out. Not easy, but it means that everything has to count.

As MThibault pointed out, Black Gate readers aren't all hardcore gamers and the reviews we carry have to have some appeal for them as well - hence, I ask reviewers to keep discussion of mechanics to a limit and sometimes to elaborate on essential terms that non-gamers might not understand. Carrying that argument back to its source, we're not just reviewing product, we're delivering product ourselves - people are paying for Black Gate and I want to make sure they get something good (even if the primary focus of Black Gate is fantasy fiction, the gaming material is still an important part of the content). I've got a goal of putting out good, readable reviews that make people want to read more reviews, pick up the products, or maybe even get a little more into gaming as a whole. I've also got a responsibility to keep up good relations with the publishers who supply us with review material - I think most publishers realize that a publication with limited space can't review everything and one with a quarterly schedule isn't going to get word out fast, but I hope that they'll recognize the quality of reviews that go out with Black Gate and keep coming back to us.

OTOH (switching soapboxes), I can also understand the publishers' point of view when it comes to dealing with reviewers - I work in marketing for a major Canadian scholarly press and for a while was actually responsible for sending out our review copies. I knew who was requesting reviews and who was producing, and boy, did it steam me when people who never covered anything sent in whacking great lists of requests. Or when people covered something by producing a "review" that was essentially just a description of the book - hello, that's on our website already. It's on the book. If I was a game publisher, I'd be annoyed everytime I saw a review that essentially duplicated the table of contents from a book or said "this book contains 35 new feats and 15 new prestige classes" (of course, some publisher's marketing copy does that as well, but that's another goat). But that's a chance you take when you send out a review copy - maybe it won't get reviewed and if it does, there's every chance the reviewer will trash it hard. The best I could do was keep an eye on things and if a publication or reviewer wasn't keeping up at least a minimal level of return or quality, I'd cut them off.

Still, review copies are one of the most economical forms of promotion going. There's not a lot of extra time and expense involved, the cost to the company is minimal, and the impact is good. Compare a review to an ad - people tend to skip ads more readily while a review (especially a well written review!) will get attention. Sending a review copy costs you postage, the production cost of the book, and a bit of staff time to process. Placing an ad in the same venue costs design, art costs, space costs, and again a bit staff time - with the trade-off being that you're paying for a guaranteed appearance and whatever message you care to run. For the price of one ad, you can send out a good number of review copies and if only two or three of those get reviewed, the number of people who are hearing about your book jumps dramatically (and that's not counting any word of mouth spread by the reviewer directly).

When and how a publisher can use a review depends on what part of the publisher you're talking about. Editorially, a review at any point after publication can give you feedback that you can plow into future prodcut development (although reading reviews is a lot like getting a book critiqued in the draft stages - if one person complains about something, it could be nothing, but if multiple people complain about the same thing, you should start listening). Marketing and saleswise, of course, reviews are best fresh: as a source of blurbs that can assist in other marketing (one of my measures of a good review is that is says something potentially quotable about a product) or that can drive up early sales. Even slightly older reviews are good though - blurbs are still good for reprints or sequels and backlists sales are nothing to sneeze at.

So what does all this mean to the topic? I guess I'd say that for reviewers, it means try and write for both parts of your audience (consumers and producers); for publishers... well, you sends your books and you takes your chances - wherever the cow chips fall, you can still scoop them up and through them on the pile.

From either side, getting a really good review out is still tremendously satisfying. :)

Don
(Gaming Editor, Black Gate - www.blackgate.com)
 

DonB said:


<<snipped a lot>>

Marketing and saleswise, of course, reviews are best fresh: as a source of blurbs that can assist in other marketing (one of my measures of a good review is that is says something potentially quotable about a product) or that can drive up early sales. Even slightly older reviews are good though - blurbs are still good for reprints or sequels and backlists sales are nothing to sneeze at.

Don
(Gaming Editor, Black Gate - www.blackgate.com)

Since Don ressurected this thread I'll run an adventure for it...

I just wanted to throw a me-too in here. Publishers like reviews they can get pull-quotes from. A five to eight word quote fits nicely in a banner ad and we can use something even a bit longer for a print ad (but not much longer). In turn this gives the reviewer exposure as well, since the quote gets attributed to them. For example, I'm running an banner ad now for "Masters of Arms" using a quote from one review and a rating from another and this means that both those reviewers get their name and website advertised.

Reviewers might want to condense their opinion of a product (particularly a product they like) into a short sentence somewhere in their review, perhaps just pointing out the feature that stood out most to them.

On a somewhat unrelated note, one of the most insightful things I've read was an article over on Matt Forbeck's website (no URL handy, sorry) where he talks about his experiences in the game industry. There's one section where he mentions that game writing is like any other kind of writing, most gamers don't actually play the games from the books they buy so they're buying the book for entertainment purposes. That means you better make sure your writing is entertaining as well as useful for the game. I think this applies to reviews as well. Reviews are writing too and like all writing needs to entertain as well as inform to be really successful. If you read reviews in computer game mags you'll notice that they're designed to be a fun read.
 



AaronLoeb said:


The one area where I did mean to slip into actual "I take issue with this" is the general tone of "style just doesn't matter; only idiots care about art in their game books" posts, which I see more often on other sites. I think art and style matter a lot, and I like to hear about it in reviews from a subjective, analytic perspective.

(snip)

But I'm left with these questions: is there room for purely subjective reviewing ("I had fun reading this, and I thought this was pretty, and you will too if you like X, Y and Z")?; is there some part to game books beyond their functionality that is currently being ignored in reviews?; and even if there is room for subjective reviews and even if there is some part of these books being ignored, does anyone want to read reviews like that?

Those are interesting questions to me, because if I were to write a review for this site, they are exactly the points that I would cover. I've also been fascinated at the review conventions that seem to be developing. They're very different from the ones in book publishing as a whole, with which I am quite familiar.

I suppose that everyone reviews from their own frame of reference, and mine seems to be a bit different from most of the other reviewers. I spent some time as an art student, then studied history and literature. I have *real* problems with lousy art, and am extremely irritated by sloppy grammar in a published product. I also seem to value products for their fluff more than most people. Finally, I am so sick of feats and prestige classes I could scream. Add all this up, and I'm afraid that any review I would write would be useless to most readers.
 

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