Publishers that don't add indexes--RANT

Bardsandsages

First Post
What logic is there behind NOT putting an index in a full campaign setting? I just started running a Dragonlance campaign, and I can't quickly locate information in the book. Do you know why? Because the book has no index, that's why. I see a location on the map and I say to myself "Hmmm, wonder what goes on there." But I can't find it, because there is no index, and the book is not easily laid out.

The Rifts campaign setting is a nightmare to run and play. There are no indexes, and even the table of contents make no sense.

How do you put out a 200 or more page book and NOT INCLUDE AN INDEX??? Are people suppose to memorize the book? Why would you deliberately make it difficult for people to use your book? Particularly for us DMs who need to be able to find info quickly in the middle of combat without flipping through fifty pages at random.

Sorry, just had to get that out.
 

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Bardsandsages said:
What logic is there behind NOT putting an index in a full campaign setting? I just started running a Dragonlance campaign, and I can't quickly locate information in the book. Do you know why? Because the book has no index, that's why. I see a location on the map and I say to myself "Hmmm, wonder what goes on there." But I can't find it, because there is no index, and the book is not easily laid out.

The Rifts campaign setting is a nightmare to run and play. There are no indexes, and even the table of contents make no sense.

How do you put out a 200 or more page book and NOT INCLUDE AN INDEX??? Are people suppose to memorize the book? Why would you deliberately make it difficult for people to use your book? Particularly for us DMs who need to be able to find info quickly in the middle of combat without flipping through fifty pages at random.

Sorry, just had to get that out.

Well, indices are great, fantastic, useful tools. I agree that many books that don't have them, should. At the same time, publishers really aren't just "jacking with you" when they don't have an index. Many of those that don't try to have a more useful table of contents. There are some reasons you don't see an index in some books, you are certain to believe that most of these reasons are "bad" but, here you go:

-An Index must be created AFTER the entire book is laid out, then the index has to go through layout itself and be added to the book. Any change in the layout/printing stage can change the index. It has to be the absolute LAST step before going to the printer. I have never seen any method of making an "automated" index that was accurate and didn't require someone to double check every detail.

-Creating an Index is very time consuming, due to when it is made often the developer and/or authors have moved on to different projects. This means that sometimes the person "stuck with it" doesn't know the book as well.

-An Index adds pages to a book, sometimes this causes a book to break a page break changing the printing plan and costs of a book.

Some of these reasons don't sound good, believe me, I know. At the same time, when a book is planned for 144 pages, and priced for 144 pages, advertised at that rate, etc. and then your layout guy has to drop the font half a point to fit everything in 144 pages, well, you aren't going to have an index. Many times writers and developers simply forget to think about the # of pages an index might add when writing up a book. Even a few pages extra can throw you off.

All of those things said, I personally make an effort to include an index in any books I write and develop that I feel should have one. Both Eldritch Sorcery and City State of the Invincible Overlord from Necromancer Games have an Index. In each case it was many hours of extra work for both myself and Mike Chaney (our layout guru). There are mistakes in both Indexes that we missed. This always happens.

Including an index is a great deal of extra work, and the payoff in terms of customer "compliments" is, well, practically non-existant. Even better is when you see a review complaining about the Index "wasting space." An Index is something that some people complain about when it isn't there, but it is NOT something that helps get someone to buy a book (at least not usually). If a publisher is going to have to choose between having an index and being late, or being over page break, they are goign to choose not to have it.

I know the logic might not be very sound to you, and obviously I have spent the time to create indexes for books I felt need them, but publishers do indeed have reasons to "forget" the index in some cases. Of course, the main reason you'll find an index in a book I have developed is that I like them too, I just understand some of the reasons an index doesn't end up in a majority of books.

Patrick
 

This is all good to know (both the reason for having an index, and the unhappiness caused by not having one.)

Can I get folks' opinions - how many pages warrant an index? Is an index just as helpful in a pdf as it is in a printed book?
 

Cathix said:
Can I get folks' opinions - how many pages warrant an index? Is an index just as helpful in a pdf as it is in a printed book?

For me number of pages isn't an issue. A book detailing an individual city damn well better have an index, whereas a spell compendium may not. A 32 page book might require a more extensive index than a 96 page one, if the material were more dense with names and places.

As to a .pdf, there the index is of no use as the bookmarks hyperlinking function provides what an index does, and with much more functionality.
 

Cathix said:
Can I get folks' opinions - how many pages warrant an index? Is an index just as helpful in a pdf as it is in a printed book?

Personally, I feel it depends on the book. Generally, I wouldn't expect anything below 64 pages to have an index.

Cities, settings, spell compendiums (Just about any "compedium"__I disagree with the post above- I specifically included one in Eldritch Sorcery), and the like should have an index.

I can't stress enough though, making an index is NOT trivial. Having made a number of them, I can assure you it simply isn't a simple "15-minutes of time" as was posted in a recent review I saw at rpg.net. It is literally hours of checking and double checking before having to put the index itself into the layout, and then double check the layout, etc.

At the same time, making a product easier to use helps get people to actually use it. The more people actually using it can help drive more sales. At the same time, you can be pretty darn sure that anyone using a book isn't going to say "Oh, yeah, I use this instead of book Y because it has an index." They might talk about it being easier to use or or something but they aren't going to brag about the index.
 

Bardsandsages said:
What logic is there behind NOT putting an index in a full campaign setting?

How do you put out a 200 or more page book and NOT INCLUDE AN INDEX???
Pure laziness IMO... :uhoh:

But I wholeheartly agree with you about the rant.
 

I do all the layout for our company, and yeah, creating an index is quite time consuming. But so many aspects of layout are. You kind of learn to love the pain... :D

Not doing an index might be read as laziness, or it might also be that a publisher's release schedule is more ambitious than their life allows. It takes a while to gauge the proper balance between day job and publishing company, or free time and production time, etc. But I do believe crafting a high quality, highly useful product is reason enough to slow down, and perhaps put out fewer books per month/quarter/year.

This discussion has made me consider our upcoming releases, and already two of them that I might not have put an index for are going to have one in the print-on-demand version.
 

Pseudonym said:
As to a .pdf, there the index is of no use as the bookmarks hyperlinking function provides what an index does, and with much more functionality.

I'm amazed at the number of PDF publishers that don't include simple bookmarks. In many of my shorter PDFs there ends up being more bookmark entries than there are pages (14-15 bookmark entries in a 6-7 page PDF isn't uncommon for me). I figure people like the feature and use it.
 

Pretty much anything above 20 pages or so should have an index, even if only a single page or column (or bookmarks, for any pdf > 10 pages). A table of content is *not* an alternative.

And yes, the absence of an index has persuaded me *not* to buy books in the past...
 

I can't stand any book without some sort of page reference, and I can't figure out why PDF's don't have bookmarks. That drives me crazy. Sure, a 3 pager may not need one...but any book that contans sections of classes or feats should have at least a bookmark to the section. And if the classes are separated (region specific classes placed near the text for that particular area) there should without a doubt be both bookmarks AND an index so you know where you can find every class in a book.

drives me crazy that some publishers don't do it.
 

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