Publishing Modules

[Ashy]

I agree with Monte, and I think that *one* possible "special" thing that publishers could do with adventures is utilize OGC from various companies in them. Folks are buying up rulebooks left and right, obviously, so why not put out an adventure that uses a prestige class or three from X rulebook, a whole slot of new spells from Y rulebook, in addition to some new monsters and races from Z rulebook.

Basically, something that really has not been done before.

Also (and this is just a personal dream of mine) I think that it would be AWESOME to see a cross-publisher series of adventures. Imagine a series of six adventures that took characters from 1st to 20th level. Green Ronin writes the first one, Malhavoc does the 2nd, Atlas does the 3rd, so on and so forth - now THAT would ROCK!

Oh, BTW, if any pubishers out there want to do the above, email me - I wanna work on it!

Just my $.02...

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

This is a particular shame because when most of those adventures came out in the glut, most of the writers were not yet proficient with the rules. Now that many writers truly have mastered the rules, they're writing more rules, not adventures.

Hear hear! I buy adventures (and Monte, I just ordered "The Banewarrens"), I run them, I use them. And I have a subscription to Dungeon, when no other game magazine gets my money. Well done adventures are hard to find, and good adventures form the basis of any campaign.

I believe that there's a shortage of high level adventures. That means adventures going between level 13-20. There's also a shortage of Epic level adventures, but I don't think the EPH is in the SRD yet, so I'm not holding my breath on those.

Short, 32 page adventures aren't going to cut it in the current market any more. There's no point in those when a subscription to Dungeon will work. But a 96 page, 128 page, or 190 page mega adventure will draw attention, and if done well, sell better than many of the junky rulebooks out there.

 

[Rifter]

Short, 32 page adventures aren't going to cut it in the current market any more. There's no point in those when a subscription to Dungeon will work. But a 96 page, 128 page, or 190 page mega adventure will draw attention, and if done well, sell better than many of the junky rulebooks out there.

I am not so sure about that. I have been running my party through Return to Temple of Elemental Evil for some time now. It is getting a little tiring of doing the same thing, week in and week out. I kind of like the early WotC modules. They were quick, and I could run them over a month or two (we run twice a month, not weekly). I kind of prefer shorter adventures, so you don't get stuck in a rut. Of course, after this, I am considering city of the spider queen, but that is because I have several party members very interested in it. I think between them, though, I will throw a few home-brews in.

One thing I have not seen in a while, are those really short adventure "boosters". I know 2 companies made them, and I snagged over 20 of them, but I have not seen them at the local store in a while. I really liked those. 3 or 4 dollars, for a quicky adventure.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

One thing I have not seen in a while, are those really short adventure "boosters". I know 2 companies made them, and I snagged over 20 of them, but I have not seen them at the local store in a while. I really liked those. 3 or 4 dollars, for a quicky adventure.

Those are REALLY not profitable. They don't make money, considering the cost. That's why I suggest a subscription to Dungeon for short adventures. Check it out. I've used practically every issue of Dungeon since I've subscribed. It's probably the best value in gaming today.

There's a point of increasing returns past the 32 page point. For instance, a 32 page module doesn't cost that much less than a 96 page module to print, but the 96 page module can command a 50% higher price (around $15). Now, you still have to write and illustrate the other 64 pages, but the fixed costs of writing are usually much lower than the printing costs.

 

[ced1106]

Another thought: Modules disguised as GM aids.

Modules don't have to be the standard adventure. I'd like to see a book of encounters. The official 3e demo adventure actually does this very well, showing off lumbering undead vs. cowardly kobolds. TSR's Book of Lairs sorta did this, but implied the lair was the evening's adventure.

Since you mentioned roleplaying, City Encounters would be ripe for roleplaying activity. Also include a chapter how a GM can use such an encounter to spread rumors or otherwise adapt them for his adventure.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[Sir Edgar]

Does anyone know how many the top selling d20 adventure sold? How about campaign sourcebooks? I'd REALLY like to know.

I don't know how d20 companies keep surviving even if they sell as many as 10,000 copies (which is considered very good from what I understand).

There are many people out there who feel that they have to buy a WoTC product because it is D&D and will skip d20 products altogether. Unfortunately, that means there are a lot of adventures going unsold. Which is bad enough because it is a very low profit margin business. From what I understand, a 2,000 copy run will net $1 or $2 a piece for the publisher, if that.

I'm really starting to think if this business, since it is a niche market should raise prices. A $29.95 hardcover book of ANY kind is rare to find at the bookstore. If it's a small specialized market like this, there should be a premium allowed.

But that's just my opinion. I mean I don't like paying more as much as the next guy, but I think I have a point.

 

[jmucchiello]

Short, 32 page adventures aren't going to cut it in the current market any more. There's no point in those when a subscription to Dungeon will work. But a 96 page, 128 page, or 190 page mega adventure will draw attention, and if done well, sell better than many of the junky rulebooks out there.

I don't think mega-adventures are really going to outsell a 48 page module. (32 page is so 1980's) How many people start and never complete a mega-module. Short modules are easier to drop into an existing campaign. They don't disrupt the level flow of the players, i.e. if I run Banewarrens, my 6th level party goes all the way to 10th level and I didn't get to have any fun with the my own stuff while they passed thru those levels.

I suppose I'll find out for real when my adventure PDF comes out in February.

Joe Mucchiello
Throwing Dice Games
http://www.throwingdice.com

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

I don't think mega-adventures are really going to outsell a 48 page module. (32 page is so 1980's) How many people start and never complete a mega-module. Short modules are easier to drop into an existing campaign. They don't disrupt the level flow of the players, i.e. if I run Banewarrens, my 6th level party goes all the way to 10th level and I didn't get to have any fun with the my own stuff while they passed thru those levels.

Hm... I haven't found that to be true. When running the Temple of Elemental Evil, my players have done a few sidetrips, especially when the entire party wasn't there. What has happened is that the next few encounters become really easy for them, but they breeze through those and soon start hitting the harder encounters again. The 3E experience system is very well balanced in that sense. So long as they don't gain 3 levels and then completely outclass the adventure, it should be ok for them to gain a level from some other activities.

The other thing I've discovered is that if you run the game as written (no pulling punches, no fudging), one or two PCs will occasionally die here and there, and then you might need to have a side trip just to bring them back in line with the rest of the adventure.

The final alternative is to have adventures hard enough that even if the PCs are slightly higher in level, they still get a challenge out it. (Monte Cook seems particularly good at this)

 

[bushfire]

It's my belief that a company right now (probably not a brand new company, since it's practically impossible to get noticed/established at the moment) could make a decent go of producing a nice line of high-quality adventures. But they would really have to be something special--something beyond what we've seen before (although I'm not talking about gimmicks here--gimmicks never last). It's not a get rich quick scheme, but someone could make a go of it.

What's more, the industry needs this to happen. Players can't use 87 gagillion rulebooks if they don't have any adventures to use them with.

Well at least one company is making a go of selling primarily modules, Necromancer Games.

With the exception of Tome of Horrors and the upcoming Book of Taverns and Grimtooth's, they are pretty much cranking out modules. They also have a bunch (?? 20+ ??) more in the pipeline that have been delayed because of work on the Judges Guild Wilderlands/CSIO projects.

Most of these are also in the 64+ page range.

Maybe Orcus could stop by and give some input on this thread.

 

[Arnwyn]

Well, I don't know what the market is like regarding modules/adventures, but what I can tell you is that adventures are the only things I buy.

I'm done with rules. There's just too much out there, they don't improve the game anymore, and even if I owned them they would never be used by me anyways.

However, I *always* need adventures. What good are rules if there's no location to apply them? I bought Monte's Demon God's Fane and Banewarrens as soon as they hit print, and I buy *everything* from Necromancer Games (as their products exemplify the style that I use). Fiery Dragon is also good, but too sparse nowadays.

(I'm leery of other companies, as I don't trust them and I am unsure of how adaptable their adventures are - for example, I don't use any of 3e's "halfling paladin" and "dwarven wizard" nonsense. And I despise pdfs/electronic format products.)