Punch, Kick, Trip, Pummel Bash for Fighters

[ren1999]

Please tell me what you Dungeon Masters would allow and not allow with these Martial Exploits. How can I improve them? Are they too weak or too powerful?



Punch Target
requires 1st level, Athletics Skill, a free hand;
minor encounter;
1 adjacent target;
dexterity versus reflex;
on a hit, 1d0+1 damage with elbow or fist, and target dazed,
+1 damage at 11th and 21st level;
Kick Target
requires 2nd level, Athletics Skill;
minor encounter;
1 adjacent target;
dexterity versus reflex;
on a hit, 1d0+1 damage with knee or foot and target pushed 1 square,
on a hit of 5 or greater, pushed 1 square and falls prone,
+1 damage and +1 square at 11th and 21st level;
Trip Target
requires 3rd level, Athletics Skill;
minor encounter;
1 adjacent target;
dexterity versus reflex;
on a hit, target unbalanced, grants combat advantage +2;on a hit of 5 or greater, target falls prone;
Pummel Target
requires 4th level, Athletics Skill, a weapon handle;
minor encounter;
1 adjacent target;
dexterity versus reflex;
on a hit, 1d4 damage and target stunned,
on a hit of 5 or greater, target knocked prone,
+1d4 damage at 11th and 21st level;
Shield Bash
requires 5th level, Athletics Skill, a shield;
minor encounter;
1 adjacent target;
dexterity versus reflex;
on a hit, 1d4 damage and target stunned and pushed 1 square,
on a hit of 5 or greater, target knocked prone and pushed 1,
+1d4 damage and +1 square at 11th and 21st level;

 

[bbjore]

At first glance the fact that they're minor actions would make them far to powerful to be given out for free, you're effectively adding multiple attacks per turn and per encounter without any cost to the character. I'd also be cautious about giving out the ability to stun for free as well. If you slot them as actual encounter power that could be picked in lieu of other class encounter abilities then I think they might work better. Just make sure the status effect could be found at that level. For instance you might want to wait on the stun until level 17. Also, some of your players might not like the fact that they're Dexterity based as well since it benefits some builds more than others.

If what you're trying to do is model some new basic combat maneuvers you might want to consider incentivizing improvised attacks or even allowing a player to alter a melee basic attack in some manner. In my game I made a brawler feat which grants a +2 prof. bonus and 1d6 damage to improvised attacks (including punches, head buts, kicks, pommel attacks...). This lead to an increase in those sort of maneuvers since they were now viable with inherent bonuses rules. Your post has caused me to consider allowing any class to modify a melee basic attack if they're trained in some skill. For instance, if you're trained in Athletics, you could forgo 1[W] damage with a melee basic attack to knock the target prone with an unarmed attack, or if your trained in acrobatics you could forgo 1[W] damage to make kick that causes the target to grant CA or possibly even daze.

If you like the idea of a minor action attack, just make it a power like I mentioned above, or add a cost by requiring a feat. A minor action attack the does little or no damage but has an additional effect for the cost of a feat might make a nice addition to the game. I'd probably tie it to skill training rather than a specific class or ability though, so no one class feels left out. A warden would probably like to shield bash as well.

Last, another way to approach the idea is that these things are already happening and refluff existing powers. For instance I always describe cleave as the fighter stabbing one opponent and punching another.

Just some thoughts on alternate ways to approach your problem. I like the idea of trying to add a little extra flash to an encounter.

 

[JustKim]

What is the intention behind the 1d0 damage die? You know you don't have to express damage with a die roll in there, and if you do, you qualify it for basically every damage bonus out there.

So, what the 1d0 does is basically double the effectiveness of anything that adds to a "damage roll" in any combat 4 or fewer rounds in length. These powers also make abilities that have a rider "until the end of your next turn" far more effective by squeezing in twice the number of attacks during that time. One option to fix that is to make these abilities usable after a successful attack, and not require an attack roll. Removing both the attack roll and damage roll curtails a lot of possible abuse.

What I would do, to begin with, is remove any and all damage from these attacks if they're going to be minor actions. Changed the dazed condition for punch to something else because it is pretty uncommon for 1st level characters to inflict that condition, it's too good. Remove the text about having a different effect on a 5 or greater, because it adds an unnecessary new mechanic to the game. For the conditions other than prone, define when they end. If you really want these abilities to scale, do it by tier instead of attack roll.

This is an interesting idea and I hope you can find a way to balance it.

 

[ren1999]

O.k., I'll remove the 1d0 reference.

I'll also make it clear that these powers are minor actions, encounter powers.