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<blockquote data-quote="HazardCatcher" data-source="post: 4405799" data-attributes="member: 62188">Curtained Window of DeathIt struck me as funny that there is no save for falling in a pit trap when it occured during a game. But I don't think it has so much to do with whether or not the creature knows the pit is there, but whether he is already in that square. Pit traps are assumed to activate after a creature has wandered into that square(or been pushed even) the &quot;pit&quot; doesn't exist until it is too late for the save. This is especially obvious in a trap that say, turns all 8 squares around the creature as well as the one it is standing on into a pit.It doesn't seem to be in the spirit or rules of the game that a creature pushed through a curtain or illusion into an open pit would not get a save.Is there a rule or example in the book that suggest creatures do not get a save to fall off cliffs they aren't aware of?The reason I think it works this way is that creatures are (usually, exceptions for gelatinous cubes) left hanging after the save, the game just represents that hanging condition as prone in the square next to the square you are hanging in, which is probably a lot simpler on everyone then creating a &quot;hanging&quot; condition which lets you not fall in squares with no floor if you are adjacent to a square with a floor. The game just lets you crawl up the ledge for free.If creatures are in fact not hanging off a ledge then what is to keep creatures from making a saving throw when being forced into any square they don't want to go into by going prone? Not that such a rule couldn't exist but, it doesn't right? I'm a little unclear on whether there is a save for being pushed into a fire or blade trap or other hazard, but if it works that way why can't a creature stop itself from being pushed next to the fighter or pulled into Orcus' aura?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HazardCatcher, post: 4405799, member: 62188"] [b]Curtained Window of Death[/b] It struck me as funny that there is no save for falling in a pit trap when it occured during a game. But I don't think it has so much to do with whether or not the creature knows the pit is there, but whether he is already in that square. Pit traps are assumed to activate after a creature has wandered into that square(or been pushed even) the "pit" doesn't exist until it is too late for the save. This is especially obvious in a trap that say, turns all 8 squares around the creature as well as the one it is standing on into a pit. It doesn't seem to be in the spirit or rules of the game that a creature pushed through a curtain or illusion into an open pit would not get a save. Is there a rule or example in the book that suggest creatures do not get a save to fall off cliffs they aren't aware of? The reason I think it works this way is that creatures are (usually, exceptions for gelatinous cubes) left hanging after the save, the game just represents that hanging condition as prone in the square next to the square you are hanging in, which is probably a lot simpler on everyone then creating a "hanging" condition which lets you not fall in squares with no floor if you are adjacent to a square with a floor. The game just lets you crawl up the ledge for free. If creatures are in fact not hanging off a ledge then what is to keep creatures from making a saving throw when being forced into any square they don't want to go into by going prone? Not that such a rule couldn't exist but, it doesn't right? I'm a little unclear on whether there is a save for being pushed into a fire or blade trap or other hazard, but if it works that way why can't a creature stop itself from being pushed next to the fighter or pulled into Orcus' aura? [/QUOTE]

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