Pushover DM

[randomling]

Hi everyone,

I have a slight problem.... last week I DM'ed for the first time and discovered that I'm a complete pushover with regard to at least one of my players. This is probably to do with the fact that he's about 10 times more experienced at the game than me (he knows the rulebook backwards) and I'm pretty weak-willed anyway.

I'm running a two-player campaign and of course a major issue is that I don't want to be unfair to a player who is being slightly easier on me.

But the other issue is how do I even handle an issue like gambling, where the PC wants to buy loaded dice and cheat? I was *completely* unprepared for this...

*panic*

 

[DanMcS]

Specialty items like that could be hard to find, expensive too. At the extreme, he'd have to buy a set and then load them himself, necessitating a couple of high DC (20 or so) craft checks in woodworking or something similar. I'd rule 2 per die- one for raw craftsmanship (DC 20), one for verisimilitude (just roll and jot down the result). The first one he could roll, and know the results of. The second you would roll with his craft skill modifier, and keep a secret. Use it as the DC later for the Spot check to notice the dice are bad. If he buys them, the craftsman got a 10 on the second roll, with skill points and ability bonus that's about a 15 result.

To get them into a game, he'd have to go to a place gambling is common. The house would probably have their own dice, and it's unlikely his will look like theirs. Back to square one, teehee.

So now he makes or buys another set (four more checks, two public, two secret). Goes back to the gambling house, who probably have him marked since he came in earlier, looked at their dice, got pissed, and left

He needs to get in a game. No problem there. Now he'll have to make a Bluff check opposed by the house's Sense Motive to get ahold of the dice for the exchange, and a Pick Pocket opposed by their Spot to swap the dice.

Now he's in the game. I'd use craps rules, only let him roll a d8 instead of a d6, and if it comes up 7 or 8 he can pick the best result.

Every time he uses the dice, the house gets a Spot check (they'll have a +6 or +7ish with ability modifiers and maybe skill focus) vs his earlier Craft roll (the one you kept secret) to notice what happened; they get a cumulative +1 every time he uses them in front of the same group. If you're really mean, /everyone/ around him will be making these Spot checks, and it only takes one guy noticing to say "Hey, those are bad dice," and smash them with a heavy mug to reveal the load.

Getting caught with loaded dice in a gambling house run by rogues is best handled by the combat rules, which you probably have a pretty good handle on. Note that as a rule of admission he won't be allowed to carry weapons. A severe beating and relief from the weight of all that treasure he was carrying is the best he can expect.

 

[randomling]

Thanks -- that was really helpful. I'll bear that in mind next time he's in a gambling mood.

Right now I'm thanking various things that we're in the woods next session. I need to know how to challenge my PCs properly though. (This DMing gig is hard!!)

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Don't neglect to make sure that there are some consequences for the winning streak your PC is going to have. If he's playing in some sort of gaming house, he is going to get the attention of the house that is losing money to him - if it happens too often, theyr'e going to get very suspicious.

Other gamblers may also notice something fishy about the dice. How well disguised are they? Perhaps other gamblers also have loaded dice? Even if thye don't detect anything, losing a lot of money to him, might thye try to get it back later, in a dark alley? Or force him to play until he's lost it back to them somehow?

This sort of fixed gambling will make a target of the PC, and will lead to a lot of fighting, which will lead to a reputation for trouble . . . all in all plenty of fallout for a fistfull of coin.

-rg

 

[Mr Fidgit]

wow, DanMcS is right on the money! (......ok, pun intended). the only thing i would add is after reading:

Now he's in the game. I'd use craps rules, only let him roll a d8 instead of a d6, and if it comes up 7 or 8 he can pick the best result.

that's fine if you don't mind spending alot of time on the gambling. in D&D Rules i suggested this:

just as another way you might handle gambling...

in Deadlands it works something like this: first, you set the stake for the game. this can be any amount of money (i've seen it as low as a quarter for a 'low-stakes' game, and as high as $50 for a really high-stakes game)

then all gamblers make opposed rolls. the lowest roll is subtracted from the highest roll. that number times the stake are the winnings (the highest roll wins, of course; the lowest roll loses, and everyone else breaks even)

any player could also substitute another skill if it applies. for example, someone who wanted to cheat or bluff could use those skills opposed by spot or sense motive. if the cheater or bluffer won the check, they could add a circumstance bonus to their gambling roll or substitute the rolls, if their cheating or bluff skills were higher

(http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=447400#post447400)

i would also add, that this can cover a night of gambling or a 'round' of gambling (which could take up to a couple of hours, so several 'rounds' could occur in one night)

and Radiating Gnome gave some good advice too. the house won't be the only one on the lookout for cheaters. gamblers don't like to lose, you know?

 

[Stone Angel]

well first off you have identified the problem. You know that you are being way too easy on him. I hope this only happens in game. You need to remember you are in control. If he is using his real world intimidation skills that is just bad form. The easiest way to not get pushed around I have found do your homework, on the pc's and any type of encounter(underwater, spells, ect.) that you may have, that way you are just as well versed as he is. Don't worry this will get better after a few sessions under your belt.

 

[pogre]

Good Experience

Try being a bit more assertive - I think you received lots of good advice on the loaded dice thing.

I think DMing for someone like this early on is one of the best experiences you can have to learn your own wany. Years ago when I was a Sophomore in high school I played with a bunch of guys who were in college. They were always pushing me around on rulings and asking for alternative rules and so on. I finally learned how to handle these guys after a year or so and it greatly enhanced my game mastering.

So this player is a challenge, but look on it as a great opportunity to hone your skills in refereeing!

 

[Iron Sheep]

I have a slight problem.... last week I DM'ed for the first time and discovered that I'm a complete pushover with regard to at least one of my players. This is probably to do with the fact that he's about 10 times more experienced at the game than me (he knows the rulebook backwards) and I'm pretty weak-willed anyway.

I'm running a two-player campaign and of course a major issue is that I don't want to be unfair to a player who is being slightly easier on me.

One suggestion I have is to try running a published adventure, rather than creating one yourself, at least at first. (And if you're already doing that, you can ignore this comment!) Many published adventures have detailed comments about how to run encounters, which can cut down on some of the pressure. It's much easier to stand up to someone if you have an authority to fall back on.

Another thing to do is to try using his experience to your advantage! If you trust him enough to be impartial, ask him how he'd handle a certain situation, or whether you got the ruling right. Get him to help out the other player with rules questions.

But the other issue is how do I even handle an issue like gambling, where the PC wants to buy loaded dice and cheat? I was *completely* unprepared for this...

The way I'd personally handle this would be fairly abstractly: the D20 system is fairly forgiving if you just make up a DC for a situation and run with it. In the grand scheme of things, it's probably good enough to get within 5 of the correct DC for anything non-essential like gambling.

Faced with this sort of situation, the first thing I'd do is throw it back at the player: "Where do you go looking for loaded dice?" or something like that. They might give a detailed answer like "Well, you mentioned that Steward's Lane was a wretched hive of scum and villainy, so I'll start there." or they might just appeal to character knowledge, "Well, my character has lived in this town his entire life, and she's a member of the thieve's guild, so she should have a fair idea of where to buy loaded dice." which is also fine.

Maybe get them to role-play it out a bit more, and then pick a reasonable DC and skill. If they were relying on their background knowledge of the town, use Knowledge (local) (or default to an Int check). If they were asking people, use Gather Information. If they were just wandering around town looking, use Search.

As far as determining DCs goes:

• If the task should be easy, the DC might be 5 or 10;
• if it's moderately hard, the DC might be 15 or 20;
• if it's difficult, then 25 or 30 might be appropriate;
• and for something that is really only in the reach of real experts, and then only with a bit of luck, you're looking at DCs of 35 or higher.

In the above example, if the town is unfamiliar, a DC 15 or 20 is probably OK; if is familiar, a DC 5 or 10 is good.

And so on through the other stages of finding a game and sneaking the dice into it.

For resolving a gambling game, I'd suggest something like a Profession (gambling) or Int check (since most gambling games have at least a little strategy) against a DC of somewhere in the 10-15 range (10 for a game against novices, and about 15 would be right against professional gamblers or a casino), and maybe give a +2 circumstance bonus for having weighted dice in the game. Then say that they win or lose 5-10% of their stake for every point that they made or failed the roll by. You could do this for each game, or just once for an entire evening's gambling, depending on how much fun your players are having: they may really enjoy role-playing out the ups and downs of each game, or they might just be wanting to know if they can get a little bit more money for the evening.

This sort of ready-reckoning of skill checks works pretty well for me when I'm DM-ing. Let the player's know what the DC is that you're suggesting, and listen to them if they think it's really unreasonable, as they may have thought of something that you didn't, but be prepared to stick to your guns and not make everything too easy. Keep the game moving, and your players having fun, and you shouldn't have too much to worry about.