Effective Communication Outside of Game Play

[MGibster]

I want folks at my table who are interested in playing, and if they are not, id prefer they were not at the table. Must be a good friend if you are willing to go this far.

It's like the frog in the hot water. It's not like he came swinging out of the gate, it started slowly, built up over the course of some sessions, and then you finally look back and think, "Oh, yeah. It was so obvious."

One of the reasons I started this thread was because I can think of numerous examples from my younger days that I look back on and think, "I really should have talked to that guy." Back when 3.0 was hot stuff, my gaming club was running events and this guy who hadn't played in years showed up with his 17 year old daughter. One of the other players was macking on her the whole session and I, the DM, said nothing. Oddly enough I never saw this man or his daughter at any of our future events. I really should have talked to the player, someone I knew, then and there, but I kept hoping he'd show some decorum. Foolish on my part.

 

[payn]

It's like the frog in the hot water. It's not like he came swinging out of the gate, it started slowly, built up over the course of some sessions, and then you finally look back and think, "Oh, yeah. It was so obvious."

I think you mentioned the player has done this kinda thing before too. Seems like repeat behavior and its going to be a good task to break them of it. If its a friend and the gaming group aint the gaming group without them, its worth a try.

One of the reasons I started this thread was because I can think of numerous examples from my younger days that I look back on and think, "I really should have talked to that guy." Back when 3.0 was hot stuff, my gaming club was running events and this guy who hadn't played in years showed up with his 17 year old daughter. One of the other players was macking on her the whole session and I, the DM, said nothing. Oddly enough I never saw this man or his daughter at any of our future events. I really should have talked to the player, someone I knew, then and there, but I kept hoping he'd show some decorum. Foolish on my part.

This seems completely different. Thats more of a social etiquette faux pa. Though, I agree, if folks see this kind of thing they should speak up in a tactful way, if possible.

 

[MGibster]

This seems completely different. Thats more of a social etiquette faux pa. Though, I agree, if folks see this kind of thing they should speak up in a tactful way, if possible.

It is completely different but it's still a problem that needs to be discussed. It's not much different in a work setting. Sometimes the problem you have with an employee really isn't directly tied to the work they're doing.

A few months ago my wife and I were at our FLGS on a game day but I wasn't running anything. We entered the store at the same time as two other customers, both of whom positively reeked of tobacco with strong undercurrents of marijuana. Neither one of us are particularly sensitive to smells, we're not allergic to anything nor will bad smells give us migrains, but we found their smell to be overwhelming and gave them as wide a berth as possible in the retail space. Even after they retired to the back to play in their game we could still smell them.

It got me to thinking about what I would do if they sat down at my table for game day. I found being around them for just a few minutes to be nearly unbearable and couldn't fathom sitting next to them at a table for four hours. If I were running the game, I'd feel compelled to eject them for my sake, the sake of everyone else at the table, and the sake of everyone else surrounding my table.

Body odor is a classic HR problem. If I was at work, I could speak to an employee privately, find out if the BO is caused by a medical issue, and work towards a solution from there. At the game store, there really isn't a place where I can talk to someone privately, especially about something sensitive like this, so we'd have to step outside to speak. There's no good way to have this conversation and whether you have it or not someone is going to be unhappy.

 

[aco175]

There may also be another player that can deal with others better that yourself. I recall in the Army we had a group that would play sometimes when it was not a pay-week. One of the sergeants was able to tell one of the other privates to 'smarten up' before I needed to get involved. I might think that a younger DM and friends playing with an adult might be useful to have the adult talk about things over the DM.

But, heavy is the crown.

 

[payn]

It is completely different but it's still a problem that needs to be discussed. It's not much different in a work setting. Sometimes the problem you have with an employee really isn't directly tied to the work they're doing.

A few months ago my wife and I were at our FLGS on a game day but I wasn't running anything. We entered the store at the same time as two other customers, both of whom positively reeked of tobacco with strong undercurrents of marijuana. Neither one of us are particularly sensitive to smells, we're not allergic to anything nor will bad smells give us migrains, but we found their smell to be overwhelming and gave them as wide a berth as possible in the retail space. Even after they retired to the back to play in their game we could still smell them.

It got me to thinking about what I would do if they sat down at my table for game day. I found being around them for just a few minutes to be nearly unbearable and couldn't fathom sitting next to them at a table for four hours. If I were running the game, I'd feel compelled to eject them for my sake, the sake of everyone else at the table, and the sake of everyone else surrounding my table.

Body odor is a classic HR problem. If I was at work, I could speak to an employee privately, find out if the BO is caused by a medical issue, and work towards a solution from there. At the game store, there really isn't a place where I can talk to someone privately, especially about something sensitive like this, so we'd have to step outside to speak. There's no good way to have this conversation and whether you have it or not someone is going to be unhappy.

BO is a classic difficult conversation. However, I dont think folks are being deliberately stinky to troll people like your gamer bud. Thats actual intentional behavior which likely requires a different yet still mindful approach.

 

[Jd Smith1]

IMO/IME, this is an issue of the classic GM job: managing expectations. During the vetting process of prospective players, I lay out the table rules, or standards of social interaction expected of a prospect. Since moving purely on online I've dropped quite a few (BO and wearing pants are no longer an issue, for example), but the list is still there.

I have found that a lot of players who would have been problems are filtered out when they hear the rules. The fact that there is a list of table rules deters some players from even applying.

In short, instead of trying to change behavior, you should recruit like-minded individuals.

 

[KYRON45]

I'm old school. None of this gentle parenting.
From the DM perspective: Point out the problem. Explain how the problem is affecting the group.
Define the solution. Define the consequences.

From the friend perspective: Ask why they are behaving this way. Find out the nature of their problem and be supportive in finding a solution. Everybody has a story.

In either perspective don't let them walk all over you and the group. Game time is supposed to be fun time.

 

[Thomas Shey]

This is me speculating, but my guess would be that he's frustrated by one or more aspects of the game, but wants to play (possibly because of the rest of you are or because he'd otherwise have trouble finding a group to play with) and this is expressing itself in the negative behavior. If that's true you may have to zero in on that either because he's not conscious he's doing it (and may have resistance to admitting it) or because he still sees it as the start of a trip out of the group.

This is not to say you should not be doing it, because continuing with that sort of thing poisons a group pretty well, but when someone does things like that rather than bringing it up, the best-case is they're just conflict averse, and all the others are worse.

(And yes, if it proves to be impossible to address, you just deal with it on an out-of-game level. I've never understood why some people think spanking people in game serves any valuable purpose in these situations).

 

[LordOfTheWaffleHouse]

I ran a campaign recently that was not to the liking of one of my players. Instead of talking to me about it directly, he had his character behave in a disruptive manner just to stir the pot, he made passive aggressive complaints, and when he had to replace his character introduced a new one who didn't at all fit into the campaign while giving him the stupidest name imaginable. It's something the other players noticed, one even commented about it, but I never addressed the issue with the player on a one-to-one basis like I should have. I did ask all the players what I could do to improve the experience for them, they gave me useful feedback which I incorporated to various degrees of success, but I should have talked to the player.

This isn't the first time I've had problems with this player. In past campaigns he's done things just to stir the pot that left me and the other players a bit exasperated at times. Mostly I thought it was behind us, but the disruptive behavior and passive aggressive comments came back in a big way. It's obvious I'm going to have to talk to him.

A few years ago, I had to take a course at work called Crucial Conversations which was all about how to have important and difficult conversations at work. It was mostly common sense stuff and if I could sum up the course it'd be as follows:

1. Be empathetic and have a positive intent for the discussion.
2. Stay on topic.
3. Don't be accusatory.
4. Try to remain calm.
5. Agree on a mutual purpose.
6. Come up with a plan of action.

What does this mean?

1. I'm starting the conversation knowing he doesn't like certain campaign types and hoping to arrive at a solution that is acceptable to him, me, and the rest of the players.
2. I dont plan on bringing up anything other than examples of game play and comments.
3. I won't accuse him of being a jerk or purposely messing things up for everyone.
4. I'll do my best to remain calm about anything negative he has to say about my GMing.
5. Hopefully we will both agree that we just want the game to be best for everyone.
6. What can both of us do to ensure the game goes well for everyone?

I understand the sad truth is that communication doesn't necessarily lead to finding an acceptable solution. There's a possibility that we won't reach a mutually acceptable solution and the best course of action might be for him not to participate in any games I'm running. I know some of the other players at the table are a little frustrated because his inclusion in our group limits the types of games we can play. But we're all friends and nobody wants to hurt anyone's feelings.

I just kick players like that, to be honest. We're all adults (most of the time), and it's not my job to hold your hand as a player. Manners and generally acceptable behavior are fairly standard across the board and everyone's supposed to be there to have fun, and they get an early explanation of what's going to be occurring in a game during recruitment, if not at session 0.

Personally, I DM long form campaigns more often than not, as in my campaigns are designed to last a year or more and be played bi-weekly. I like my players to make characters they will enjoy playing and more importantly, GROWING AND ADVANCING. I want you to write a backstory and character in the world, and then care about it. One of my players has been a dragonborn paladin in a 2 year long campaign who went from a LE Paladin of Conquest to a NG Paladin of the Forgotten (neat homebrew) after his character grew during the campaign. Similarly, I've had a player who quickly became bored of his character and started actively attempting to get other players killed, and making simply odd, chaotic decisions that made no sense, had no basis in the circumstances at hand, and started rankling the other players. If your character dies, yes you'll make a new one, but I don't like it when someone "just gets bored and so timmy two shoes jumps off a cliff to his death so he can make bradley uppercrust the third". I warn all of my players WELL in advance that this is a standard I will hold, along with more basic things such as "nah, I ain't doing sex scenes bro".

There's nothing wrong with letting a player go if they can't mesh with the table. I've had tables I've played at and left because I didn't mesh well, or had to leave because they didn't like me, though fortunately pretty rarely. Ain't anything to get bent out of shape over. Your players are responsible for themselves, you're not responsible for them.

 

[R_J_K75]

I had a similar situation around 2021. A player was just being disruptive, talking out of turn, trying to dominate game play, and telling other players how to run their characters. He was not adding anything constructive to the game. It got to a point I didn't want to play with him and got a lot of complaints from the rest of the group that if this person continued to play, they weren't. Sometimes a situation is just too far gone and having a conversation isn't going to solve anything. As we were playing at my house, and I was DMing, I just texted him and told not to show up to play anymore. Haven't talked to him since, problem solved.