Pyramid of Shadows joys (spoilers)

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Today was a good session of Pyramid of Shadows. This was a combination of good DMing, great players, and better encounters.

We had three major encounters.

The PCs met the bandits and talked to them; human foes are always interesting as they have at least some areas in common between them and the PCs. This led to the "room of the demon bitch", which saw everyone make insight checks against a succubus except Greg's paladin. Greg knew it was a succubus, but he decided to play his character as if he didn't. He ran up to Josh's fighter and tried to stop him from attacking the succubus - using the grab attack and then pulling him away from the succubus. (Side note: this is the first time the PCs have used the new grappling rules, and they seriously rock. 3e grappling bothered me terribly!)

Grabbing Josh allowed the Succubus to kiss him... and as Josh was still next to the Succubus, he took the next two hits (from Adam and Nate)... uh, oh!

That was a great encounter. Josh and Greg ended up spending rounds praying at the altar in the shrine for guidance whilst Splug, Nate and Adam finished off the succubus. Greg's actions made that encounter.

The next encounter was against a werewolf - a solo creature, scary! - which the bandits let the PCs deal with. This was a nice, simple encounter; no terrain to complicate it, just the PCs pounding on the werewolf as much as possible while it gave as good as it got. By the end of it, the PCs needed to rest. Greg failed his Endurance check against its Moon Fever, so - if I remember - we'll have a bunch of fun next session.

The final encounter had the PCs returning to the Arboreans with a tentacle of the Carrion Lord ("look, we've killed it!"); as they were escorted to the temple of the Arboreans, they attacked with surprise. (For those attacks, I require PCs that make Bluff vs. passive Insight or Stealth vs passive Perception to get the surprise round). This led to a combat where there was lots of space (good!), there was some terrain that the monsters could use effectively, but not really that much of it, and the monsters' vulnerability to fire was something the PCs could actually use!

The combat was tough, but they were able to get through it successfully, though Greg went down from a bunch of horrific attacks; thankfully, Josh now has the Warlord multiclass feat and was able to Inspire him back up!

Apart from that, the Nathaniel and Adam show continued (with support from Josh and Greg), and we got a bunch of good roleplaying in. The PCs now need to clear another three rooms on the bottom level, and we can then finally reach the second level of the dungeon, which I trust will be more entertaining than parts of the first. Need to see what's there and alter it to fit the group, I think!

One of the main reasons I'm happier is because I had a lot of fun roleplaying the opponents. For Nate, he had encounters which weren't more a struggle with the terrain than the monsters; he'd complained of that in the past. I actually took a bunch of pews out of the shrine just to free it up a bit; too constricting can really suck the fun out your powers.

Cheers!
 

log in or register to remove this ad

That was a great encounter. Josh and Greg ended up spending rounds praying at the altar in the shrine for guidance whilst Splug, Nate and Adam finished off the succubus. Greg's actions made that encounter.

Splug? As in everyone's favorite goblin from Keep on the Shadowfell? Did he become part of your party? If so, that is awesome. :)
 

Splug? As in everyone's favorite goblin from Keep on the Shadowfell? Did he become part of your party? If so, that is awesome. :)

Yeah, that Splug. He's now a lot more heroic than he was in KotS; he's saved most of the PCs lives at one point or another, and I'm running him as a 7th level goblin rogue. :)

Cheers!
 

I'm surprised you went with the Werewolf, since you felt that PoS is a real slugfest. The werewolf is a fairly uninteresting encounter, and uninteresting monster for a solo.
 


I'm surprised you went with the Werewolf, since you felt that PoS is a real slugfest. The werewolf is a fairly uninteresting encounter, and uninteresting monster for a solo.

The context of the encounter was everything.

Because the werewolf encounter was surrounded by a lot of roleplaying, what it actually gave the players was a fun encounter where they could use their powers without being distracted by annoying terrain. Too many complications in combat is actually a flaw of PoS: the simple encounters run quickly and are fun.

So, the combat went 9 rounds, which was about 30 minutes of play. It was somewhat extended by three of the PCs spending a couple of rounds trying to Intimidate it into surrendering - "Bad Dog!" - they failed, but it was close. ;)

Our group really enjoys combat... it's just that we like it to be broken up with other pursuits and for it not to be frustrating. The werewolf encounter was a nice meat-and-potatoes combat where they could show who was best!

Cheers!
 

(Side note: this is the first time the PCs have used the new grappling rules, and they seriously rock. 3e grappling bothered me terribly!)

Interesting to hear you say that, as I'm finding the 4e grappling rules worse in every way! 3e took one read through and then it was easy, and there were a lot of things you could do. So far we've had to crack open the books and hunt for the right page every time grappling has come up, then working out whether they are immobilised or just grabbed, whether they grant combat advantage or not, what you have to do if you want to move the grabbed person.

My group have been astonished at how grapple now seems to us to be less functional and more complicated than it was before :(

At least it's working for some people...!
 

Interesting to hear you say that, as I'm finding the 4e grappling rules worse in every way! 3e took one read through and then it was easy, and there were a lot of things you could do.

3e took one read-through? You must have been looking at a different section than I was.

The major problem with 3e grappling, however, was that there weren't any options in most fights. A 12th level human fighter in 3e could be well expected to have a grappling modifier of +18 or so, right? Unfortunately for him, the Purple Worm (CR 12) had a +40 modifier!

He can cut his way out of the Purple Worm by using a light piercing or slashing weapon, right? Well, sorry, he can't: he wasn't carrying it when he was swallowed (funny he doesn't fight with a dagger), and to draw it he needs to make a successful grapple check.

Oops.

I saw that pattern repeated again and again and again. A medium-sized creature against a large or huge creature would fail any grapple check they needed to make... and there were a lot of big creatures in 3e.

There's no doubt that 3e grappling worked better than 4e grappling if creatures had grapple bonuses within about 2 or 3 of each other, but more than that it broke down so severely that it was a death sentence for the weaker grappler every time.

4e grappling?

Grab: (standard) Strength vs. Reflex. Target becomes immobilized; sustain minor.
Pull grabbed target: (standard) Strength vs. Fortitude, pull half-speed.
Escape: (move) Acrobatics vs. Reflex or Athletics vs. Fortitude.

Immobilized? Well, that's on my DM screen: You can't move from your space, except by teleportation or a forced move. Doesn't stop attacks, spell-casting, etc.

Which part of 3e grappling have we actually lost? In truth, just the Pin ability.

Cheers!
 

Don't forget the joys of a spellcaster going through every single one of their spells in the PHB, looking for one that has only a "V" component.

I also recall a lot of confusion regarding the intersection of natural attacks and grapples... A monster with, say, +12 BAB but only one natural attack, while grappling can (a) use its one natural attack, but at a -4 penalty; or (b) attack three times with its grapple, with the second grapple at -5 and the third at -10, dealing its "unarmed strike" damage. Given monster grapple bonuses, (b) is almost certainly the best option, but of course the monster statblocks don't include the relevant information. You have to look at its BAB, figure out how many attacks it would get, do the adjustments on the fly for the extra attacks, and then figure out its "unarmed" damage as a function of its size and STR modifier. And really, what game purpose is being served by having two completely seperate attack tracks for the creature? It's an extra headache for no good reason.

There is no way in which grappling in 4e is more complicated than 3e. Simplistic, yes. Complex, not at all.
 

3e took one read-through? You must have been looking at a different section than I was.

No, seriously. It was all there on one page, and seemed straightforward. I've never understood what the problem (lampooned so often) was with grappling.

Sure, the mechanics of grappling colossal or gargantuan creatures was stacked against the PCs - but we always saw that as verisimilitude rather than a problem.

4e lacking pin (and with grab being so easy to escape from) makes it hardly ever seem worth trying, and the fact that we have to look it up each time (because it is strength vs reflex, sustain minor, but strength vs fortitude to do this and they make acrobatics vs one skill or athletics vs a different skill - it just seems more fiddly to us, that's all.

It is one of the things we laugh about - that they claimed that 3e grappling was too hard and so they made it simpler and we continually stumble over something now which never used to give us trouble at all :)

Cheers
 

Remove ads

Top