Pyramids of the dead

Fingol

First Post
Just a general question (world building?) that has been bugging me for some time.

To advance a level you need to kill about 3.3 critters of a CR equal to your level (from the DMG). While there are not huge amounts of people level 20th or above living in a game world (say FR?). I get the impression that there are at least as many as there are base classes, maybe more considering that there might be some variety due to (PC) races and maybe specially powerful kingdoms have their own 'set'.

Say there are only 11 on each game world; one per base class and say that it is roughly capped at each class not progressing past 20th.

To reach 2nd you need to kill 3.3 critters, to reach 3rd you need to have kill a further 3.3 critters but these 3.3 need to have killed 3.3 1st as well and so on....or about 3.3^19 or a pyramid of dead bodies totalling about 7 or 8 billion critters.

Assuming that there are monsters born with levels this could reduce the size of the pyramid but monsters need to eat and defend their hunting grounds etc...so can you assume that the effect is roughly the same?

The trouble is that I can't visualising how in one 'live time' there were enough critters to support 11 times 7 or 77 billion dead body/ xp eaten pyramid on any game world (even FR).

To make matters worse there isn't just one level 20th dude of his class walking around he has a 'pyramid' of living aspirants under him all fighting to reach the top spot that he is currently occupying. Just the three spots directly below 20th, we are looking at the three of them standing at the top of another 3 billion dead critter pyramid.

So I come up with about 100 billion dead each average adventurers live time; surely no game world can support that?
 

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Only if the only way to gain experience is by killing things.

Of course, some of us reward XP for meeting Challenges, which includes avoiding traps, defeating villians (note, not necessarily killing them), escaping challenges, even for avoiding fights with diplomacy and quick wits. Then there are "story awards".

Also note that alot of PC-atagonists, especially at higher level can come from the outer planes, elemental planes, the Plane of Shadow, Astral Plane, and so on.

I wonder how many demons live in the Abyss? Any censuses taken recently?
 

The XP rules are for advancing PCs only. It's purely speculation how NPCs get their levels, or why the world isn't overrun by Shadows :p
 

Numion said:
The XP rules are for advancing PCs only. It's purely speculation how NPCs get their levels, or why the world isn't overrun by Shadows :p

"NPCs gain experience points the same way that PCs do." p107 DMG in the blurb on NPC classes; and surely if a NPC with a NPC class gains xp like a PC then a NPC with a PC class does too?
 

D&D experience system was designed to promote combat, and thus tactical encounters and more miniatures sales. Even if I am exaggerating a little bit (although I don't think so), the design objectives was to pace character advancement under the rules. The designers never considered using it as a worldbuilding parameter so I'm not really surprised to find out that it doesn't works this way even if you adjust to the fact that there are creatures that are born with higher CRs.
 

Fingol said:
"NPCs gain experience points the same way that PCs do." p107 DMG in the blurb on NPC classes; and surely if a NPC with a NPC class gains xp like a PC then a NPC with a PC class does too?

I don't have the books with me so I don't know the context of that quote. The basic premise of the rules is that they model adventuring in a small group around a fantasy land. Using those rules for modelling societies is bound to get wonky results. Just like in any simulation the tools should match the objective.

For instance, any D&D society would surely be doomed since there are no rules for having children.
 
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You are missing out on the fact that most higher CR critters are not critters that have 'leveled up', but are born with all kinds of crazy powers.... so the mountains of dead are a lot smaller, as most critters don't need to kill to get to high CR's....
 


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