Pyromancer Mage: Balanced?

[renau1g]

I would think that's how it works, but there appear to be only 24 monsters who are Fire Immune from my search of the compendium of which only 1 is non-Epic, so I'd imagine it's not a big concern.

Actually, it's interesting because the Volcanic Dragons aren't immune to fire, or even resistant to fire.

 

[DracoSuave]

The ability to circumvent fire resistance isn't like some brand new thing that is powerful and mighty.

There's a feat in the first PHB that circumvents fire resistance. It's about the only non-damage thing fire powers can do, feat wise.

And it's not like fire resistance is some holy power absolutely needed to keep fire powers in check, those dastardly things.

It isn't the ability to do powerful things, it's the ability to avoid having your abilities arbitrarily nerfed by a random monster. Sorcerers have been doing it forever, and it's not considered their most important feature.

Hardly worth discussing, really.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Oh, and if you think Burn Everything is interesting, look at Surging Flame:

When you hit a target that has fire resistance with a fire power, any fire power deals 5 extra fire damage against that target until the end of your next turn.

This his hilarious as a pyromancer. With a little trivial set-up (hit an enemy with a fire power),it turns any fire resistance into Vulnerable 5 fire. In combo with Burn Everything, even immune creatures take extra damage.

"Doot dee doo, I am a fire elemental, I bathe in lava."
"G'day, mate, I'm a fire mage."
"LOL, I can bathe in your fiery doom."
"Well let me wash you. Pew pew pew!"
"OW! THIS HURTS MORE THAN ANYTHING. YOU ARE BURNING MY LACK OF FLAMMABILITY. I AM MADE OF FIRE AND NOW I AM MORE ON FIRE THAN BEFORE. THIS MAKES NO SENSE."

Sympathy of Flame is not awful in combination with any weapon property that deals ongoing fire damage (flameburst, infectious flame, flaming), though getting that sweet incendiary dagger superior implement is a hefty feat fine for a mage (they don't have proficiency with daggers as an implement). Stoking the Fire isn't great, but it stacks, so it's overkill.

That's all before you leave heroic.

BOOM BOOM BOOM

 

[Dausuul]

The essential pyromancer (from Dragon 391) can ignore fire resistance.

This seems pretty potent. Thoughts?

Not particularly. This isn't 3E, with resistance and immunity being handed out like candy. These days, monsters only get resists if it's clear that they really ought to (or if they're demons, which are basically a giant middle finger to spellcasters). Most opponents won't have fire resist to begin with; the pyromancer ability just means you don't get screwed over when you meet something that does.

Oh, and if you think Burn Everything is interesting, look at Surging Flame:

This his hilarious as a pyromancer. With a little trivial set-up (hit an enemy with a fire power),it turns any fire resistance into Vulnerable 5 fire. In combo with Burn Everything, even immune creatures take extra damage.

"Doot dee doo, I am a fire elemental, I bathe in lava."
"G'day, mate, I'm a fire mage."
"LOL, I can bathe in your fiery doom."
"Well let me wash you. Pew pew pew!"
"OW! THIS HURTS MORE THAN ANYTHING. YOU ARE BURNING MY LACK OF FLAMMABILITY. I AM MADE OF FIRE AND NOW I AM MORE ON FIRE THAN BEFORE. THIS MAKES NO SENSE."

Admittedly, this is rather silly, but it makes a certain amount of sense that a pyromancer should be more powerful against fire-themed foes rather than less. It's like necromancers fighting undead--you'd think a necromancer would be able to pwn most undead opponents, rather than struggling to affect them at all.

Besides, at that point you've dumped two feats into dealing with fire resistant/immune foes, when you already have the ability to ignore fire resist. Hardly worth it if you ask me.

 

[Klaus]

Oh, and if you think Burn Everything is interesting, look at Surging Flame:



This his hilarious as a pyromancer. With a little trivial set-up (hit an enemy with a fire power),it turns any fire resistance into Vulnerable 5 fire. In combo with Burn Everything, even immune creatures take extra damage.

"Doot dee doo, I am a fire elemental, I bathe in lava."
"G'day, mate, I'm a fire mage."
"LOL, I can bathe in your fiery doom."
"Well let me wash you. Pew pew pew!"
"OW! THIS HURTS MORE THAN ANYTHING. YOU ARE BURNING MY LACK OF FLAMMABILITY. I AM MADE OF FIRE AND NOW I AM MORE ON FIRE THAN BEFORE. THIS MAKES NO SENSE."

Sympathy of Flame is not awful in combination with any weapon property that deals ongoing fire damage (flameburst, infectious flame, flaming), though getting that sweet incendiary dagger superior implement is a hefty feat fine for a mage (they don't have proficiency with daggers as an implement). Stoking the Fire isn't great, but it stacks, so it's overkill.

That's all before you leave heroic.

BOOM BOOM BOOM

"I burn you... with yourself!"
"OH, THE ELEMENTANITY!"

 

[TerraDave]

Ok, ok.

Though this thread begs the question as to why even have resistance to damage in the game.

 

[twilsemail]

Not particularly...

Unless you're intrinisicly tied to the element of fire (like a Pyromancer or a Dragon Sorcerer) it's still tough to burn a fire giant or a red dragon. Seems both mechanically and thematically viable to me.

 

[Dausuul]

PCs are not the only source of damage out there. A fire-resistant monster can make good use of that resistance when fighting in fiery terrain.

 

[DracoSuave]

Ok, ok.

Though this thread begs the question as to why even have resistance to damage in the game.

Resistance is not 'How to balance classes'.

Resistance is 'a tool DMs use to build encounters depending on the party he is facing.'

You want an encounter to be a bit harder, make some monsters resistance to certain members. You want it to be easier, make some monsters vulnerable.

If you want to really muck it up, make some monsters vulnerable, some resistant, others immune, and make it a puzzle to see who has to do what to whom.

 

[TerraDave]

You could have a “fire walk” trait or something like that, if the goal is to have the monster in a fire environment…

But lets take a typical party…

If your wizard is a pyromancer, he is now able to ignore pretty much any resistance. I guess there are some special cases…but almost blanket immunity. And just about every response on this thread has said that is a good thing.

The martial characters also don’t really have to worry about it. non elemental DR is pretty much gone from 4E. Again, they may have a few minor effects that depend on an element, but it won’t be a big deal.

Your cleric or paladin might do radiant damage, but almost nothing has resistance to that.

Yes, you could come up with some random counter examples, but why? Why should you have a case where a pretty typical party just happens to ignore resistance, but some other characters happen not to? Wouldn’t it be simpler to take out of the game?