Quality of Holy Symbols

[whatisitgoodfor]

This is something that came up the other night.

The party's cleric is using the emblem on his shield as his holy symbol. While trying to cast an inflict spell on the bad guy he botches the Concentration check (treating the 1 as a -10) bringing his check low enough (for once) that he failed the defensive casting check.

The BBG decides to spend his AoO to sunder the clerics holy symbol (the DM forgot for a moment that the cleric's sybol is imbedded in his shield). The attack succeeds and the symbol is struck for about 15 points of damage. Clearly not enough damage to destroy the shield (and thus the symbol), but the DM ruled that it had done enough damage to the symbol to mess up the cleric's spells until he had a chance to play with it.

This, of course, leads us to the question at hand. How intact does a clerics holy symbol have to be in order to still function as a Divine Focus?

Ps. Here are some corollary questions.

What stats do yall use for the hardess/HP of holy symbols (wooden, gold, and silver)?

How do yall prefer to deal with holy symbols integrated into other items such as shields, armor, and lackeys?

Do you think that my DM is an SOB for nerfing our cleric's spells in the middle of an adventure based on a questionable call?

 

[hammymchamham]

Um, botching the concentration check does not cause an AoO. It causes you to lose the spell, as if you casted it but no effects occur.


From the SRD

15 + spell level
Casting defensively (so as not to provoke attacks of opportunity).

and

Casting Defensively: If the character wants to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, the character needs to dodge and weave. The character must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell the character is casting) to succeed. The character loses the spell if the character fails.

The DM made a very bad call

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Sorry, I should have clarified. The house rule that we play under (and have all agreed is better (at least for us)) is that failing the Concentration check to cast defensively doesn't cause the loss of the spell, it simply provokes the AoO with the defender being flat footed.

 

[hammymchamham]

since you're discusing house rules, then I suggest the house rule forum Anything with damaging a holy symbol on a shield (which would be a house rule) would have to be a house rule. There is nothing offical about what you're asking (at least that I am aware of).

 

[Aluvial]

Cripe the house rule thing.... More house rules get discussed here in interpreting the 'official" rules then over in the house rules forum...

Anyway, have you checked out the Path of Faith book form Fantasy Flight games? They have some rules on holy symbols and how to enhance them... I like the new rules.

Speaking of damage to your shield. I think your DM has the right to do whatever the hell he wants to, BUT he should try to stay within the rules and limits of the game. I would have nerfed your clerics focus too, if the shield had been partially damaged. When altering the focus to an item that can be damaged quite easily, I think that you should expect your DF to be altered (i.e., ruined).

Aluvial

 

[Adam_Coath]

Of course your GM is always right and you have to accept his ruling and move on. Carry an extra symbol with you next time.

But it wasn't the call I would have made. A holy symbol is just that, a symbol. It should work as long as you believe in it. It doesn't matter if it is a 1000gp golden statuette or a beat up picture painted on you shield in charcoal. It's your belief that matters. The symbol itself isn't magical. Unless totally destroyed, or desecrated it should remain effective. Damaged symbols can still inspire faith. Consider, for example, the damaged flag from the World Trade Center.

A GM should generally try to avoid taking away a character’s abilities for any significant period of time. It makes things less fun for the player. In your case it doesn't sound like this was much of an issue since you just had to "play with it" a little to get your powers back, and clerics can still participate even if they can't cast spells. Destroying a wizard’s spell book, for example, is much more debilitating.
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