Question about Druid wild shape ability

[dakranon]

According to the rules for a druid's wild shape ability, they do not gain low-light vision (or scent) when they turn into an animal (that has low-light vision and scent).
Furthermore, if the druid is an Elf (or a H-Elf, or Gnome, or any other race that has low-light vision), they lose their low light vision, when turning into an animal.

Does this seem right?

I believe that characters should not get 'magical-like' extraordinary qualities when polymorphing (like, when polymorphing into a Troll, getting its regeneration ability). But an animal's extraordinary qualities of low-light vision and scent are mundane, and I think that a druid using wild shape should get those abilities.

But not even considering giving a druid new extraordinary qualities when turning into an animal, it seems absurd that and Elf turning into a wolf (for example) would _lose_ their low-light vision ability.

Finally, what about other 'mundane' extraordinary qualities of animals like 'sprint', 'jet' and 'ink cloud'?



Relevant sections from the SRD:

Wild Shape:
“This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here.”

Polymorph:
“This spell functions like alter self, except..
..gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.”

Alter Self:
“You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).
You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.
You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form.”

 

[Diirk]

Wild Shape grants the Animal type when changing into an animal, and the Animal type lists lowlight vision amongst its benefits, so no you don't lose lowlight vision when you wildshape

You'd lose darkvision if you were a half-orc tho.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wild Shape grants the Animal type when changing into an animal, and the Animal type lists lowlight vision amongst its benefits, so no you don't lose lowlight vision when you wildshape

You gain the Animal type, but you don't gain its Extraordinary Special Qualities, which includes Low-Light Vision.

Dakranon is quite correct - the elf loses Ex qualities not derived from class levels (which includes Low-Light Vision), and he does not gain Ex special qualities of the new form (which includes Low-Light Vision).

For a breakdown of what Types do and do not grant via Polymorph, see here.

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Goblin Subtype

You get the following:

-- All goblinoids speak Goblin. (You don't suddenly speak Goblin just by changing form.)

Good ol' WoTC. Nice to see them remaining true to form.

 

[Li Shenron]

But not even considering giving a druid new extraordinary qualities when turning into an animal, it seems absurd that and Elf turning into a wolf (for example) would _lose_ their low-light vision ability.

That has been the same idea of mine for a long time. But you are right that the rules work that way, probably for simplicity and also to prevent some particularly powerful use of Polymorph which may render obsolete some specific spells which grant the same ex ability you are looking for.

Think of even the greater silliness of polymorphing into a member of your own race, or even yourself (it's mentioned in either Alter Self or Polymorph, although I wondered if this doesn't have an issue with being able to shift only into average members only). Even in this case by the RAW you lose your low-light or darkvision .

The only smooth way out to this inconsistency is IMHO the good'old DM's adjudication case by case.

 

[Diirk]

From Rules of the Game Polymorphing, part one:

"You usually gain any extraordinary special attacks your assumed form has, but not the assumed form's extraordinary special qualities. That's because most extraordinary special attacks are based off gross physical features (such a big, nasty claws and teeth) while extraordinary special qualities tend to be subtler and largely derived from a creature's essential nature."

... I would have thought things like low light vision, ink jets, scent and sprint would be based off fairly gross physical features myself. Such as differing eye structures, more developed noses, muscular forms optimized for short distance speed bursts, big ink glands etc. I guess its just magic ;p

 

[Hypersmurf]

Think of even the greater silliness of polymorphing into a member of your own race, or even yourself (it's mentioned in either Alter Self or Polymorph, although I wondered if this doesn't have an issue with being able to shift only into average members only). Even in this case by the RAW you lose your low-light or darkvision .

I prefer the Awakened Horse druid.

When he Wildshapes into a horse, he loses his low-light vision... but at least now he can cast spells using Natural Spell!

-Hyp.

 

[Dthamilaye]

You gain the Animal type, but you don't gain its Extraordinary Special Qualities, which includes Low-Light Vision.
...
-Hyp.

Hrmmm... Wildshape gives the [Animal] type? Really?

How legal it is for the druid to cast Natures Favour and Natures Avatar to himself when wildshaped? This would give him the nice bonus of +10 morale and +10 luck bonus to both attack and damage for 1min/level.

How about shapechanged friends? Shapechange gives [animal] type too, if I recall right? Could the druid give his friends those bonuses too?

Even at epic games, +20 to attack and damage really would unbalance some things quite a bit ...

 

[Will]

My house rule distinguishes between 'natural' and 'unnatural' extraordinary attacks.

Stuff like low-light vision and scent, but not fast healing or regeneration (which are the big problems).

Personally, I would have been happier with either a new 'natural' category, or put unusual extraordinary abilities in the supernatural category.

 

[sledged]

Hrmmm... Wildshape gives the [Animal] type? Really?

How legal it is for the druid to cast Natures Favour and Natures Avatar to himself when wildshaped? This would give him the nice bonus of +10 morale and +10 luck bonus to both attack and damage for 1min/level.

How about shapechanged friends? Shapechange gives [animal] type too, if I recall right? Could the druid give his friends those bonuses too?

Even at epic games, +20 to attack and damage really would unbalance some things quite a bit ...

If you think all that is too much you could always use the rule that any animal with an intelligence of 3 defaults to a magical beast instead.