Question about IP-based minis and art

Tewligan

First Post
I've got a question that I was hoping someone in the know might be able to help me with. I'm getting to a point in my miniature sculpting that I'm starting to entertain the idea of sculpting and casting miniatures for sale sometime down the road. More specifically, I'm thinking of doing orcs, kobolds, and various creatures that often appear in large numbers, so that a DM could buy a bag of these fodder-types cheaply. Anyway, if I did so, I would want them to (obviously) look like the creature they represent, and be armed and armored as per the MM description and art. Would that be violating any sort of IP laws? Of course, I've seen illustrations of various MM creatures in various third party products, but I was wondering if the laws change if the image (or model, in this case) is the sole product being sold. I know that Reaper has a mind flayer lookalike that they don't actually call a mind flayer - would I have to call kobolds "tiny dragonmen", or something to that effect?
 

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I am not a lawyer, you should consult one before making any business decisions.

Anyway, if I did so, I would want them to (obviously) look like the creature they represent, and be armed and armored as per the MM description and art.

Using the names orcs, kobolds, etc is easy. All you have to do is include a copy of the Open Gaming License with each product. You also need to get in the habit of saying you are referring to the SRD (and actually look at IT when you're creating stuff).
Once you decide you're going to arm and armor them with the info depicted in the SRD though you are right back to using the OGL. The d20 logo is out, since the guide specifically prohibits miniatures as I recall.

Of course, I've seen illustrations of various MM creatures in various third party products, but I was wondering if the laws change if the image (or model, in this case) is the sole product being sold.

Yes, the beholder is one of the creatures that has permeated itself almost into mainstream culture. This is iffy. Basically, everything you've seen is a derivative of the original so everything is a violation. For it to be otherwise you'd have to prove you didnt look at their stuff when you created yours. Kind of hard to do if you play the game, isnt it?

This is one of the reasons we strayed away from a lot of the pieces in the SRD that were stripped from the Monster Manual. Without the descriptions, there simply wasnt enough to make it look like we all knew it should look like, without being a derivative.

All that said, are you ever going to be able to crank out enough minatures to make it worth your while to start a business? Are you going to be able to sell them? Would you be better off trying to sell your finished pieces to someone like reaper or another mini manufacturer. Starting and running a business is a lot of work. If I had it to do over again, I probably wouldnt have started DSC. At the very least I would have approached another company (like MEG) about doing an imprint. Not because I dont love what Im doing, but because the administrative overhead is a real drag. Taxes, taxes, and did I mention taxes? Paperwork and reconciliation, the whole nine yards. Think hard before you jump in. And good luck in whatever you do.
 

Hmmm, if I recall correctly WOTC specifically changed the license to NOT include miniatures, this was when Chainmail was supposed to be the 'next big thing'. WOTC has also issued at least one Cease and Desist over miniatures that stray too close to their IP, specifically a figure for the Rust Monster.

On the other hand I have seen more generic figures that come mighty close (kobolds and gnolls among them.)

Given the failure of Chainmail I am not sure how avidly they are pursuing the issue at this point.

The Auld Grump
 
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Thanks for the input, guys. If I do decide to do anything like this, it's still pretty far down the road. It's just something I've been bouncing around in my head - especially after checking out prices on some moldmaking and casting equipment. I figure that "generic" things like orcs and gnolls and such would be okay since they're so common across fantasy games.

Eric, I guess you'd be the one to know about the hassles and questions involved in a startup like this. If I did do something like this, I seriously doubt it would ever go beyond a very small-scale thing - probably casting from the master as needed, rather than having a big backstock. Heck, I dunno - I probably will try sending samples around to established companies sometime. Just kinda brainstorming, dontcha know...
 

TheAuldGrump said:
WOTC has also issued at least one Cease and Desist over miniatures that stray too close to their IP, specifically a figure for the Rust Monster.
But the Rust Monster was a mini before the monster?
 

Well, it was a cheesy plastic toy before it was a monster at any rate. (Not sure of the date really, the plastic rust monster that I have to hand just says 'Made in China', with nary a date in sight, though I've had it since 1984 or so. It is also a Large creature if the thing was to scale....

The Auld Grump
 

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