Question about Monster HD Increases

[iwatt]

My players stay out.


For example, Let's say I want to stat out the largest Dire Bear ever. That means that it gains 24 HD (36 HD total) and becomes Huge. Reading straight from the table, this guy gets:

+18 BAB
+12 F/R/W (all good saves for the Dire Bear)

+8 Str -2 Dex +4 Con +3 NA -1 AT/AC (Huge)

8 feats

and 6 abilities increases. (I think I'll just go heavily on Wisdom....he is the Baddest Bear Ever...somehow he has to be cunning)

Also...CR=16 (7 + 1(Size) +8 (24 HD))

I've got three questions finally:

1) Can you increase Monster BAB over 20? what's the limit for saving throws? I havebn't studied the epic rules.

2)Am I missing anything?

3) What feats would you take for this creature?

Background: He's the child of a Legendary bear slain by an Uthgardt Hero 500 years ago. The PCs are tracking the hero's ghost down. The clue they must find is of course hidden in the lair of the Bear.

 

[Knight Otu]

1) Can you increase Monster BAB over 20? what's the limit for saving throws? I havebn't studied the epic rules.

Yes, the monster hit dice follow the standard rules, not epic rules, beyond the 20th Hit Dice (compare to the eldest dragons). Thus, with 36 HD, the bear has a BAB of +27, and base save bonuses of +20.

2)Am I missing anything?

Skill points - your bear gains 24 skill points. "Class" skills are Listen, Spot and Swim.
Remember that the grapple bonus increases for Huge size.
Also remember to check if the advanced bear seems an appropriate challenge for the CR you get by the guidelines. Some advanced creatures may be more or less dangerous than the guidelines say.

3) What feats would you take for this creature?

How about Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush and Awesome Blow? Multiattack might also work well.

 

[the Jester]

I've got three questions finally:

1) Can you increase Monster BAB over 20? what's the limit for saving throws? I havebn't studied the epic rules.

2)Am I missing anything?

3) What feats would you take for this creature?

1. Based on the creatures in the ELH, only class level BAB and saves top out, though you're always stuck at a max of four iterative attacks (unless you use my Additional Attack custom epic feat... )

2. Yes. He should gain an additional 24 skill points (minimum of 1/HD if you have an int score). Also, bear in mind that if this is the 'baddest bear ever' his stats are prolly somewhat higher than standard (recall that a monster's stats generally assume a default array of 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11 before radial mods). I'd say, give him an extra +8 str, +5 con, +2 wis, +2 cha (I picked an array sort of at random there, but it's a reasonably tough character array).

3. Well, I'd make sure he has Awesome Blow, Improved Initiative, the entire Power Attack -> Great Cleave Chain, maybe Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line, possibly Improved Toughness, Improved Sunder... there are really quite a few choices!

 

[Knight Otu]

1. Based on the creatures in the ELH, only class level BAB and saves top out, though you're always stuck at a max of four iterative attacks (unless you use my Additional Attack custom epic feat... )

Of course, for an animal, iterative attacks are not really a factor, since it only uses natural attacks, which do not iterate.

2. ... Also, bear in mind that if this is the 'baddest bear ever' his stats are prolly somewhat higher than standard (recall that a monster's stats generally assume a default array of 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11 before radial mods).

That's the normal array, yes. You might want to use the non-elite array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8; arrange as desired, or the elite array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8; arrange as desired, and +1 CR.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Of course, for an animal, iterative attacks are not really a factor, since it only uses natural attacks, which do not iterate.

But grapple checks made to do damage as an unarmed strike for an appropriately-sized creature do!

 

[Knight Otu]

But grapple checks made to do damage as an unarmed strike for an appropriately-sized creature do!

Good point.

 

[iwatt]

Also remember to check if the advanced bear seems an appropriate challenge for the CR you get by the guidelines. Some advanced creatures may be more or less dangerous than the guidelines say.

Well I really hope they decide not to fight it straight on. The party will be of 5 Level 8 PCs and 2 Leve 7 PCs. The spellcaster are 1 Cleric and 2 Sorcerers. None of them Fly. I have a house rule for hitpoints in which 1's are rerolled and instead of d8 we use d6+2. This leads to far tougher beasts (good for the goose....) . The systems works out to 1.5 hps more per HD. with this method the Bear has 216 hps...without considering any constitution bonus. So if they decie to take it on, the Bear will wallop them.


The whole point of this beast is to have them solve problems in an oblique fashion, instead of what we've come to call "The Barbarian Way". even though they have a lot of stealthy characters, the only aproach tehy ever use is send the barbarian first and Full Power attack. Then they swarm. Considering this, if they decide to fight it, I have no doubt that the Bear will slaughter them. By the way, I'll use the elite array (This baddie i almost a Hero in his own right )