Question about power-gaming.

[Tony Vargas]

4e and 3e are still list-based systems, so you still run into the issue of unintended synergies that can enable exploits and power builds. Since 4e is brand new, it should have fewer, of course. But, the new class design, in which /every/ class has a list of powers associated with it means that it's probably more susceptible to such things than PH-only 3e was, and will become more amenable to power gaming very rapidly as suplements come out. It depends on how easily powers can 'cross polinate,' though. It seems multiclassing is a bit limitted.

There's already been one exploit identified: Ranger(Fighter)it-Fighter with Armor Splinter and Blade Cascade for potentially infinite attacks.

So if you don't like powergaming, I wouldn't get overly excited about 4e - 3e can be quite balanced with a good GM and/or sticking to core. If you /do/ want class balance that less dependent on the DM, though, 4e may deliver.

 

[Lizard]

Right now, power gaming is rather limited. Attack and Damage bonuses are limited in number. Splat books may expand the options, but I don't see it ever becoming the problem it was in 3.5.

Heh.

That's what people said about 3.0.

"I'm so glad 3.0 is here, so we won't have munchkin crap like Bladesingers and endless streams of supplements like the 'Complete Left-Handed Half-Elf Ranger'."

More things change...

 

[BlackMoria]

Heh.

That's what people said about 3.0.

"I'm so glad 3.0 is here, so we won't have munchkin crap like Bladesingers and endless streams of supplements like the 'Complete Left-Handed Half-Elf Ranger'."

More things change...

*Chuckle* Yeah, how soon some of us forget. I expect all the 'X' is broken threads in short order just like happened after the release of 3.0

 

[Lizard]

*Chuckle* Yeah, how soon some of us forget. I expect all the 'X' is broken threads in short order just like happened after the release of 3.0

And "Y got the shaft!"

 

[Saeviomagy]

I suppose a fire-breathing dragon-man wouldn't satisfy his appetite for bizzare nearly enough then. Yes, you can play a few races out of the MM, though there are no longer ECL adjustments.

Of course since noone knows the rules, you could just give him a normal PC race's stats in an odd form.

The fire-breathing dragon-man can easily be cut down to being a fire-breathing dragon, and the only thing you're doing is adding penalties (can't wear normal armor etc).

Or "yes, you can play a troll! with some adjustments though - regeneration is just too powerful". Slip in a dwarf with an in-built polearm and you're set.

If the guy really has to have bizarre and power doesn't matter, then flavour changes are easy.

 

[Boarstorm]

If it's the one I wrote, it's hardly game breaking (though it is funny).

Cheers, -- N

Oooh, got a link? Must have missed that one.

 

[Nifft]

Oooh, got a link? Must have missed that one.

Sure, here you go: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1039954

Cheers, -- N

 

[Boarstorm]

Thank you kindly.

Edit: That... is awesome!

I'm tempted to allow it if it ever comes up in play simply for the sheer cool factor.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Both of the "one-shot" builds rely on a single broken power. That's easy to fix.

Which infinite loop are you talking about? If it's the one I wrote, it's hardly game breaking (though it is funny).

Cheers, -- N

Naw, I think it involved one of the demigod powers, allowing it to do an action an infinite number of times. I'm afraid I don't know the details off the top of my head.

As for the one-shot builds getting fixed, who's to say there won't be more the second a new book is released? I think EVERY edition has started with "WELL THANK GOODNESS WE DON'T HAVE THOSE HORRIBLE CHEESY COMBOS ANYMORE, THIS IS GOING TO BE COMPLETELY BALANCED!"

 

[Nifft]

Naw, I think it involved one of the demigod powers, allowing it to do an action an infinite number of times. I'm afraid I don't know the details off the top of my head.

Oh right, that was the infinite Demigod encounter recovery loop.

Yeah, there are a (very few) broken things in 4e. Cascade of Blades and the Demigod recovery loop (so far). But those are specific, rather than structural.

Cheers, -- N