Question about reactive counterspell feat

[welby]

from magic of faerun book. Using the feat can I cast a spell, then counterspell (using my turn from the following round) in the same round? Or, once I have cast a spell, is the feat all but useless until the beginning of the following round?

Ex.

Round 1
x casts
y moves
a attempts to cast
x counterspells
z moves

Round 2
x misses his turn due to counterspell from last turn
y moves
a attempts to cast
x counterspells again using the feat
z moves

etc..........

My DM ruled that this was an ungodly powerful feat and I wouldn't be able to cast two spells in the first round. IE. once I've cast, I cannot elect to counterspell. I just don't see it's use if this is the way it works. Thoughts?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

This counterspell action takes the place of your regular action for the round

I see where it's silly. Reactive Counterspell has Improved initiative as a prerequisite, which means you need to be fast to Reactively Counterspell, and that you'll probably go first in a combat. If you go first, you use your action for the round, and can't counterspell. If you wanted to Reactively Counterspell, you'd have to either Ready an action (but you've taken Reactive Counterspell to avoid that) or Delay your action. Either options mean that you decide not to go first, which kind of opposes the "spirit" of the feat, IMO.

"Borrowing" your next action doesn't seem so powerful. Yes, you basically get a free Quickened spell in your first round, but you lose your next action (wether or not you may take a move action, I'm not sure... probably...), and you can only Reactively Counterspell once per round, ie once from the initiative count on which you Reactively Counterspelled until just before the same initiative count on the next round.

I'd suggest to your DM to try it for a couple of fights with enemy casters, see if you're totally dominating the battle because of this feat or not, and then decide how it should work. If your DM still doesn't like it, you can always use Delay with it, or if you don't like that option, try to get your DM to agree to let you change the feat for another one if both of you can't agree on how it should work.

AR

 

[FrankTrollman]

Since you don't have a readied action, it must come from the action for the next time you'd go. There's no difference between things at the end of this round and the beginning of next round - it's just a time continuum.

So yeah, when it says "takes the place of your regular action for the round" - it means your action from the next time you'd get a round. The only other possibility is that it would rob from your last action - but it's already too late for that.

And when it says "regular action" I'm pretty sure it means "standard action" - which would normally leave you a move equivalent action left on your normal initiative the next time it comes up.

-Frank

 

[welby]

Thanks for the responses. Any other opinions out there? I'm going to have my DM check out the responses and hopefully we can work something out.

 

[Nail]

Thanks for the responses. Any other opinions out there?

Perhaps if you typed out the feat......

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Perhaps if you typed out the feat......

I don't have my book, but the information you need is the quote I have in my other post...

AR

 

[welby]

What a great idea, typing it out....

Reactive Counterspell
(Magic of Faerun)
You can react quickly to counter spells cast by opponents.
Prerequisites: Improved Counterspell, Improved Initiative
Benefit: Once per round, you can countersepll an opponent's spell even if you have not readied an action to do so. This counterspell action takes the place of your regular action for the round. You can't use this feat when flat footed.
Normal: Without this feat you must ready an action each round you wish to counterspell (See the PHB page 152).

 

[Cyberknight]

What a great idea, typing it out....

Reactive Counterspell
(Magic of Faerun)
You can react quickly to counter spells cast by opponents.
Prerequisites: Improved Counterspell, Improved Initiative
Benefit: Once per round, you can countersepll an opponent's spell even if you have not readied an action to do so. This counterspell action takes the place of your regular action for the round. You can't use this feat when flat footed.
Normal: Without this feat you must ready an action each round you wish to counterspell (See the PHB page 152).

Here is the way I interpret it.
1. Pc rolls higher init than BBG.
2. Pc Delays.
3a. BBG casts spell - pc counterspells (normaly can't do this on a delay action)
or
3b. BBG charges and whacks fighter. Pc decides to go on the initiative count immediately after BBG and heal fighter.


If the pc would have readied to counterspell he would have completely lost his action if the BBG didn't cast a spell. This feat gives you the versatility to do option 3b.

It seems to be kind of a weak feat but it has its uses.


edit - cleaned up 3b

 

[KarinsDad]

Yes, this is an annoying game mechanic aspect of the round system.

For example:

Round one
A casts spell
B moves
C casts spell
Round two
A casts spell, etc.

versus

Round one
C moves
A casts spell
B moves
Round two
C attempts to cast spell, but A counterspells it

The initiative order is exactly the same (A, B, C), the only difference is that in one case, A goes first in the very first round and in the other, C goes first in the very first round. So, when your opponent WINS initiative, you get to use Improved Counterspell all you want. If he loses initiative (i.e. you are faster in the first round and often because of your Improved Initiative), you cannot (without delaying).

That's total game mechanic nonsense.

There are two obvious solutions to this problem, one a house rule and one a normal rule:

1) House rule - allow the character with this feat to interrupt his next action (whenever that may be) in order to counterspell.

2) Normal rule - if your DM will not allow the house rule, then simply delay in round one until you go after all opponents. This loses your Improved Initiative feat, but gains you the ability to counterspell whenever your want (for the most part unless an enemy delays beyond you in the round).


Personally, in our games we ignore the concept of "round" completely. It is merely a circular initiative system in our games of A, B, C, A, B, C, etc. There are no rounds except as durations for things like spells.

 

[kreynolds]

Any other opinions out there?

Yup.

Using the feat can I cast a spell, then counterspell (using my turn from the following round) in the same round?

Yes. You just chew up a standard action from your next round, leaving you only a move action (or move-equivalent as well, if you're still in 3.0).

My DM ruled that this was an ungodly powerful feat and I wouldn't be able to cast two spells in the first round.

Your DM needs to take a closer look at it. It really isn't that powerful. Besides, you aren't limited to using it in the first round. You can use it as many times as you want, but only once per round obviously.

IE. once I've cast, I cannot elect to counterspell. I just don't see it's use if this is the way it works. Thoughts?

Yeah. Such a ruling nerfs the feat, essentially making it useless. If that's the way your DM rules, I'd suggest not selecting the feat.