Question about replacing magic system...

[jester47]

So I have been thinking of replacing the magic system with one derived from the one in Grim Tales. Largely make it a skill/burn limitation rather than a slot limitation. In this system, Wizards, Druids, and Clerics would be able to cast any spell they know as many times as they can successfully make the casting check and not run out of strength. While sorcerers would get an increased resistance to burn I am having a devil of a time coming up with a way to determine how many spells they learn. Whats the point of being a wizard when you can be a sorcerer and learn as many spells and cast more. So looking at the chart for spells, the character can learn normally 43 spells over a 20 level career. So I was thinking that it should be somthing like a 1d4 new spells every level gained.

Does this sound fair? Should it be a constant number? Like 2 + cha?

Suggestions are appreciated.

Aaron.

 

[J_D]

Whats the point of being a wizard when you can be a sorcerer and learn as many spells and cast more.

Question...

Where do you get this from? There's no limit at all to the number of spells a wizard can learn, outside of the Int-based limit to the highest level spell that can be learned. A wizard gets two free spells per level by the core rules (a rule I house-ruled out; no freebies). A wizard can learn new spells from scrolls found in treasure, from spellbooks taken from defeated enemy wizards or found, or can research them himself. There's no limit at all to the number of spells of a given level a wizard can learn provided he can learn spells of that level at all.

A sorcerer, on the other hand, does have a fixed limit on the number of spells he can know per level, based on his sorcerer level and charisma.


Edit...

I may have misunderstood. I was referring to the D&D system, and though you were describing that as a limitation of D&D. Did you mean to say that it is the Grim Tales system that has the wizardly limit? If you meant the latter, then never mind...

 

[The_lurkeR]

Well considering the large change you're making with the casting system, why still have seperate Sorceror and Wizard classes?

If you still would like to have them, why not use the spells known guidelines for the normal Sorceror and Wizard classes?

 

[jester47]

Well, the idea is the sorcerer gets his spell "Energy" from within. The wizard manipulates energy without. Thats really the root difference between the classes in the normal rule set. I would like to preserve that distinction.

JD, what I am doing is contemplating replacing the vancian magic system with one based on the one presented in Grim Tales. I want to keep Sorcerers and Wizards. In the regular rules both are limited in the ammount of spells they can cast per day. A sorcerer has a limited number of spells, but can cast more times. A Wizard has a potentially unlimited number of spells but casts less than a sorcerer.

However in the system I want to implement, things are a little different, but I want to preserve the difference in the classes. So wizards can learn any spell they can get their spellcrafting hands on. Sorcerers are different. Eveyone else can operate like a Wizard. Druids can contemplate things in nature for new spells, Clerics can read holy texts or contemplate, Wizards can study books. All the others can work this way except for sorcerers because conceptually the sorcerer's powers are coming from within. Bards also present a problem.

It might be that it won't work well because it is designed for a low magic game where spells are fairly rare. But I think casting without the vancian limitations might be kind of neat. I am not sure if this will work. It does have the limitation of strength drain, but you would have to be very careful with what spells you gave out. Also, I am not sure how having the chance of a spell failing will be taken by the characters. But I think it kind of neat that if they want to press thier luck they could cast a really powerful spell.

I think this is somthing I need to work with a little more and experiment with. However peoples suggestions on how to achieve this are very welcome.

Aaron.

 

[Tonguez]

I'm not familiar with the Grim Tales system but from what you've described

I'd let Wizards gain (research) a certain number of spells each level which they copy to their Spell books, these spells can be cast with no 'burn' (ie they have studied the spells to the point of making it an exact science) any spell not in their books still risks 'burn' (just like a scorcerer)

I suppose that means mechanically Wizards still have a limited number of Spell slots (I'd say 2 +int per level) as their Class ability

 

[Fenris]

Jester47,
Have you checked out the Sovereign Stone Magic system. It might be what you are looking for. Or at least have some elements. Very cool, low magic but not as low as Grim Tales. You can cast any spell you know as many times as you like but there are fort saves for subdual damage. Spells known are didvied into those cast with no preparation, some prep and lots of prep. Higher level means more spells cast with no prep. Might be worth looking into.

If you want to stick with Grim Tales, here are some ideas: Remember that in a low magic setting YOU control what spells are found. But you could give wizards bonuses to spellcraft to learn them. Or make sorcerers use spellcraft as a cross-class skill. To compensate lower the spell burn for sorcerers.

As it is in Grim Tales now, sorcerers gain their spells through natural means or demonic deals (ie all at the DMs whim) whereas wizards have to find and learn a spell before casting. There is still a significant difference in Grim Tales between an arcane caster (wizard) and a spontaneous caster (sorcerer)

Good luck finding the right system for your game.

 

[beeber]

i'm not familiar with grim tales either, but i switched my d&d magic system to the mana variant from s&s studio's advanced player's guide. they also have a skill-based variant. the mana one is also a free preview at http://download.white-wolf.com/swordandsorcery/advancedplayersguidepreview.pdf