Question About the Post-3.5 OGL

[Andrew D. Gable]

Will one still be able to do open products using the 3.0 rules? Or will you be obligated to switch to 3.5?

 

[Grazzt]

WotC said they are leaving the 3.0 SRD up. So, they will be running two side by side. You should be able to use whichever one you want.

 

[storyguide3]

WotC said they are leaving the 3.0 SRD up. So, they will be running two side by side. You should be able to use whichever one you want.

For OGL-only items, it makes no difference what WoTC does with the SRDs. The 3.0 SRD was releaed under the OGL, so it's not like they can take it back or stop people from using it. They could take it off their site, but that would just mean you couldn't get it from them.

I suppose they could bring out a new d20 System Trademark Liscence that required the use of the 3.5 SRD instead of the 3.0 version if you wanted to use the d20 logo. It would be a PR disaster, but I think they could do it. I don't, however, think they will.

 

[Mark]

I suppose they could bring out a new d20 System Trademark Liscence that required the use of the 3.5 SRD instead of the 3.0 version if you wanted to use the d20 logo. It would be a PR disaster, but I think they could do it. I don't, however, think they will.

I'm not sure sure it would be that big of a problem. d20 is simply an identifier of compatible products. If those compatible with the original SRD material weren't using the d20 logo, it would be easy to tell what is the most recent material.

Old PDFs would either have to be updated to work with the revised SRD or drop the d20 logo, which would make things more clear for consumers. They'd still be able to publish under the OGL.

Mind you this is just my gut reaction to your post and not an endorsement of the policy or change, but my first impression is that it would not be as devastating as one might think.

 

[storyguide3]

Mind you this is just my gut reaction to your post and not an endorsement of the policy or change, but my first impression is that it would not be as devastating as one might think.

Note that I said a "PR" disaster. Just what the conspiracy theorists would love, WoTC seen as trying to force people to switch by changing the d20 support to 3.5 only. Whether that would be good or bad is moot, the howls of those already ticked with 3.5 would become much louder if they thought that the 3rd party publishers were going to have to change to 3.5-only if they wanted to retain the logo.

As well, since WoTC is teling everyone that compatibility should not be a problem and that conversion is a doddle, their stance should probably be that the d20 logo can stand for compatibility to both versions.

 

[Mark]

Note that I said a "PR" disaster. Just what the conspiracy theorists would love, WoTC seen as trying to force people to switch by changing the d20 support to 3.5 only. Whether that would be good or bad is moot, the howls of those already ticked with 3.5 would become much louder if they thought that the 3rd party publishers were going to have to change to 3.5-only if they wanted to retain the logo.

As well, since WoTC is teling everyone that compatibility should not be a problem and that conversion is a doddle, their stance should probably be that the d20 logo can stand for compatibility to both versions.

Again, I'm not so sure that you have the pulse of it. The d20 logo was always meant to support the most current edition of D&D. Up to now that's meant 3.0, but if that changed to mean 3.5 it would not be against anything that WotC has said thus far. It's not like anyone would not be able to support 3.0, just that the d20 logo (if your scenario comes true) would be designating the most current edition, just as it has for the last three years.

I don't see why anyone should be ticked as long as there is still a way to support either version (which there always will be).

 

[storyguide3]

Again, I'm not so sure that you have the pulse of it. The d20 logo was always meant to support the most current edition of D&D. Up to now that's meant 3.0, but if that changed to mean 3.5 it would not be against anything that WotC has said thus far. It's not like anyone would not be able to support 3.0, just that the d20 logo (if your scenario comes true) would be designating the most current edition, just as it has for the last three years.

I don't see why anyone should be ticked as long as there is still a way to support either version (which there always will be).

What I am trying (obviously not clearly enough) to say is that this could be seen, by those who are already looking to hate WoTC, as further evidence that Wizards is trying to force people to convert to 3.5. If all logoed material had to be 3.5 compatible, 3.0 compatible material would be harder to easly locate. More importantly, there would be far less of it becaiuse the 3rd parties are going to want to keep the logo (bad enough that they might have to destroy unsold old stock 90 days after the change to the d20STL), and therefore they would largely switch versions.

Look at this from the perspective of those (and there seems to be some number of them) that think that Wizards is out to rape your pocketbook. They know that WoTC can't come to your house and burn your books, but they can make all (or most) of the 3rd party stuff comply with the new version of the core rules if they change the d20STL. This meakes it harder for 3.0 holdouts to get new suport material, ultimately forcing them (in the conspiracy theorists eyes) to switch versions.

Also, as I see it, the d20 logo means more than just compatible with the current version of D&D. It means that the material is part of an overall system of generally intercompatible products using the same core mechanics, frequently modified to fit genre or specific purpose. Remember, Cthulu and WoT both used the d20 logo, and they both diverged a fair bit from D&D 3.0. I know that WoTC can do what they want with the logo, but if that logo is to have any meaning at all, it has to mean more than just "current D&D version".

 

[Ranger REG]

I suppose they could bring out a new d20 System Trademark Liscence that required the use of the 3.5 SRD instead of the 3.0 version if you wanted to use the d20 logo. It would be a PR disaster, but I think they could do it. I don't, however, think they will.

No need. All Wizards have to do is update the Trademark Guide (current version 3.0). They did that when they released the Modern System Reference Document last year.

Even if they do release a new Trademark License, it will always refer to the most current version of the Trademark Guide.

 

[Mark]

(snip)

Now here, after more consideration, is why I do not think any of your conjecture will come to pass.

It's just as easy to claim that the original SRD material is as derivative of the revised material, as it is to say that the revised material is derivative of the old. Since the d20 License requires use of the OGL (and, thus, any OGC that exists regardless of its source), a company can use either to make products under the d20 License (and use the logo). Since most companies will probably move to support the revised edition, WotC won't want to remove the ties between the d20 License and the OGL (which would be the only way to prompt people to use only certain materials in new product creation).

As to 3.0 support material, there are ENnies winners and those that have received rave reviews overflowing the discount bins of half a dozen game shops within an hour of me. Over the next two years we'll see more material from third party publishers ebayed than anyone new actually existed...and not for outrageous prices because of the volume of it.

I think you are suspecting monsters are under the bed that, for you, only time can dispell. But in the end, they aren't really there. Saying it louder, and more often, doesn't make it true.

 

[storyguide3]

Posted by Mark
Now here, after more consideration, is why I do not think any of your conjecture will come to pass.

If you reread my original post, you will remember that I don't think WotC will do it, either.

Posted by Mark
Since the d20 License requires use of the OGL (and, thus, any OGC that exists regardless of its source), a company can use either to make products under the d20 License (and use the logo).

I don't think you're entirely correct here. The d20 liscence, through the Trademark Guide, already bars you from using some potential OGC. You cannot use character generation in d20 liscensed materials, even if that character generation is from an OGC source. WotC could possibly find a way to word the trademark guide to mandate use of 3.5 mechanics in some way. I repeat, however, I do not think that they will.

Posted by Mark
I think you are suspecting monsters are under the bed that, for you, only time can dispell. But in the end, they aren't really there. Saying it louder, and more often, doesn't make it true.

I think you misread my posts. I have stated that it is possible for WotC to find a way to force 3rd party publishers to use the 3.5 SRD if they wanted to . I also said that I didn't believe that they would.

I also said that it would be a serious PR problem to try to do it. Whether or not you think people should be ticked off if something like this were to happen, I can guarantee they would be. Just go out at look at how many perople have overreacted to 3.5 You can't expect that there would not be an even stronger negative reaction to any effort perceived to force 3.5 compliance on the 3rd party publishers.

Again, I am not conjuring monsters out of ether. In fact, I am very confident that Wizards has no intention of doing any of the things that I have said they could do. That does not invalidate the facts that a) they could find a way to do it through the d20STL if they really wanted to, and that b) there would be a mightly stink raised about it on this and every other forum.

For the record, I am switching to 3.5 (if Amazon.ca ever ships my $%#$@ books) and it would not bother me if they made 3.5 compliance mandatory for logo use.