Question of Crit Range

[AuraSeer]

Originally posted by Balgus

I am just saying that by making a big deal about adding it before or after the doubling of crit ranges by impr crit and keen, they are basically saying that we should use the second scenario.

No, no, a thousand times no. It's just a clarifying statement.

They explicitly stated that the constant is added after the multiplications, because this is the only ability of its kind. Keen Edge and the Improved Critical feat apply multipliers to the threat range, but only this ability adds a constant. Rather than have people argue about when that +2 gets added, they came right out and explained how it works. This one statement is not intended to change the standing rules of the rest of the game.

The need for the clarification becomes more obvious if you consider a weapon with a different threat range. A greataxe normally threatens on 20 only; keen and Improved, it threatens on 18-20. Adding the additional +2 would make it 16-20. If you (incorrectly) added the +2 before multiplying, you'd end up with 12-20, which is wrong.

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

I would assume that they put that disclaimer in there to make certain that it isn't included during other modifiers. This special ability is the first to actually add a real amount to the modifier, not actually increase the threat range by a factor of 1. Since Keen, Impact, Improved Crit all state they double the threat range, it makes it easy to follow the DND Math of 2 Doubles = Triple, 3 Doubles = Quad, etc. where as Ki Critical states add +2 to the threat range.

For Example if the disclaimer wasn't included you could come up with silly math like this:
Great Axe (20) , +2 WM(18-20), Keen (15-20), Improved Crit (12-20)
Where as it is normally:
Great Axe (20), Keen (19-20), Improved Crit (18-20), +2 WM(16-20).

Which brings me to my second point: This special ability works alot better with weapons that have 20 x?? threat range. Since the Ki Critical adds +2 it is effectively giving you 2 keen abilities instead of 1 (as with a Great Sword)

 

[kreynolds]

where's kreynolds?! (i'm sure he could explain this much more clearly...)

My clarity is about as reliable as the flip of a coin. 50/50 shot, ya' know? Besides, you're doin' fine on your own. I don't think there's anything for me to add that hasn't already been stated in one form or another. Thanks for the compliment though.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Thanks for the compliment though.

you're welcome!

 

[Spatula]

I know that it is understood that keen and impr crit doubles the natural crit range, and that is how I have been playing for two years.

But I was rereading OA last night and found this:

Under weapon master (i think page 54- sorry i don't have book with me) there is a class ability that gives him +2 to crit range. But it specifically states that it MUST be added after all the bonuses from keen weapon and impr crit is added.

If you use the "double natural crit range" rule, then it does not matter if you add teh +2 before or after the Impr Crit and keen. The only time it matters if the double means you double the CURRENT crit range.

EX- fighter with keen GS, impr crit and WM ability.
*normal crit rules- only double natural range:
add before: normal (19-20) +2 WM (17-20) doubled for keen (15-20) doubled for impr crit (13-20)
*added after: normal (19-20) doubled for keen (17-20) doubled for impr crit (15-20) +2 WM (13-20)
*no difference.

The ONLY reason there is no difference is because greatswords crit on a 19-20. There will be a difference in the results if the weapon has a different crit range. So you've been doing everything correctly all along, and that statement is there for other types of weapons (axes, scimitars, etc.).