Question on Monster PCs

[officeronin]

How do you figure monster levels for feats? Say you're making a
lizardfolk rogue as a 6th level PC. Lizardfolk is a +1 mod, so you're a 5th level rogue. Does the +1 mod from lizardfolk count when figuring feats? How about maximum skill ranks? The DMG seems to indicate that the +1 mod is actually indicative of one level in the "monster" class. If this is the case, she will be a level 1 monster/level 5 rogue -- but druid (?) is the favored class. Will she take the xp hit due to the 4 level difference between the non-favored classes? Do they get multi-attack for free?

Officeronin

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

1) Lizardfolk is a +2 ECL in the DMG.


2) You first figure the feats from the "monster class." If you look in the MM (under advancement), it says that humanoids get 1 feat + 1 feat per every four HD.

So that comes out to 1 feat for a normal (2HD) Lizardfolk. That feat can be whatever you want. It doesn't have to be Multiattack.

From then on, you base your feat progression on your total HD. Our example lizardfolk would gain a feat after taking one class level, since he'd then have 3 HD. (Table 3-2, pg 22 PHB)

Your lizardfolk, at ECL 6, would have 4 levels of Rogue and 3 feats. The max skill rank would be based on your total HD. You'd also get an ability increase at 4 HD.

If you went up a level to ECL 7, you could take a level of Druid to be:

Lizardfolk L2 / Rogue L4 / Druid L1


3) Monster HD do not cause an XP penalty. (They are like PrCs in this respect.)

Taking the above character, you would have no XP penalties:

Lizardfolk L2 / Rogue L4 / Druid L1

If you added a level of Fighter, then you'd get a 20% XP penalty.
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4) To make this even more confusing, if you take a monster where the ECL doesn't equal the HD, then you use the ECL for XP and gold only. Then use the HD for everything else.

Example: Troll, ECL +8, HD 6

If we want to make a Troll L3 Sorcerer (Hey, it could happen), we'd get:

Troll L8 / Sorcerer L3, ECL 11
Gold and XP based on a 11th level character.

2 feats from 6 monster levels (Giant advancement) + 1 feat for 9HD =

3 feats total

Max skill rank: 12

 

[dcollins]

I believe that ConcreteBuddha generally has it correct above. By the core rules (DMG), the monster HD count as character levels, and whatever a PC would have gotten for feats or skills for those beginning levels is replaced by whatever is in the monster's statistical description.

Two minor quibbles:
- There's no text that specifically allows swapping out monster feats for other selections. It's a conceivable DM ruling. However, for example, I don't allow it.

- In the core rules, starting gold is definitely based only on class levels, and monster levels do not count (DMG p. 24, 3rd paragraph). (This is changed under FRCS rules, but I disagree with that alteration.)

 

[Soldarin]

I would have to check up on it, but I think it's in the DMG or first 15 pages of the MM where it is stated that the feats given in statblocks are just the average choices.

And, yes, CB gave you the correct answer.

 

[officeronin]

A little more...

Thanks for the answers!!! Here's a few more questions:

On the lizardfolk level, we're making PCs, and their are two sets of numbers. We are using the one at the end of chapter 2 of the DMG, which I believe is +1. IDHTBIFOM, so I can't be sure. Minor quibble...

How many skill points does said lizardfolk (cleric 5) have? Do you use the "monster class" for the initial skills ([3+INT]x4) plus the later cleric skills?

What about the deep gnome fighter, who is also level 5 (due to the +1 level) but does not gain the HD of the lizardfolk?

Do you all feel this was a little poorly explained in the books?

Thanks again,

OfficeRonin

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Re: A little more...

On the lizardfolk level, we're making PCs, and their are two sets of numbers. We are using the one at the end of chapter 2 of the DMG

the stats at the end of chapter two are for NPC adjustments 'by Race or Kind' and affect CR not ECL...

 

[dcollins]

I would have to check up on it, but I think it's in the DMG or first 15 pages of the MM where it is stated that the feats given in statblocks are just the average choices.

I'd like to see that quote.