Question on using MetaMagic Rods...

[RigaMortus2]

How do people normally play MetaMagic Rods when it comes to classes that prepare their spells ahead of time, such as the Wizard?

I've had one friend tell me that, you simply "use" the Rod anytime you want to enhance your spell with metamagic. This goes for classes like the Wizard (which prepares spells ahead of time) and for classes like the Sorcerer (the "cast on the fly" kind of caster (to use a 3.0 term)).

But another friend of mine (I am fortunate enough to play in 2 seperate groups ;p) told me that you have to use the MetaMagic Rod at the time you prepare your spells (this takes 1 useage of the Rod) and then 1 more time when you cast it (this takes another useage of the Rod). Because of the "prepare and cast" clause (which I can not seem to find in MetaMagic Rods description). Not sure if this is correct or not, but how is this usually played?

 

[PallidPatience]

That's odd. It really doesn't specify the way to use it in the description of the item. It doesn't, however, mention preparation at all, in any way, under any description of any of the metamagic rods, including the general info that covers them all. Therefore, I think it's pretty strongly implied (since "cast" is the only term used) that you just use the metamagic rod when you cast the spell, applying its affects to the prepared spell.

Then again, it does mention that it is "use activated", and allows the user the "ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day". Having read that, I'd think that you use the feat the same way you'd use it for your class if you had it. Spontaneous casters at the time of casting, and preparation casters at the time of preparation.

 

[Mav]

From my understanding of it, it's almost like having the feat. It can be used 3 times per day, as though you have the feat. For a wizard, you'd have to choose which spells to empower upon memorizing. As a sorcerer, you empower at will. It wouldn't make sense for you to have to use it at mem and at cast, as they ONLY come with 3 charges per day, meaning a wizard could only use it once per day based on that rule set...

 

[PallidPatience]

I'd say forcing use at mem and cast is perfectly reasonable... if he also asks you to use the normal feats at mem and cast.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Yeah. I think it makes sense a Wizard would use it during preparation, and a Sorcerer could use it at the time of casting.

 

[Thanee]

It's a hotly debated topic.

As far as the description of the rods goes, there is one part, which strongly suggests, that they are used like the feat (basically grant you the ability to use the feat without changing the spell level).

This is also the more balanced version, obviously.

There is nothing really, that specifies, that they can be used spontaneously (and I like to think, that a huge change to the standard game mechanics like this would be called out at least somewhat clearly). The only parts, which are often stated then, are, that the rods are use-activated (but using the rod during preparation (and probably again during the casting) covers that), that casting a spell in a threatened area still occurs an attack of opportunity even when using the rod (well, yeah, of course casting a spell does... and even if prepared casters would not need to use the rod during casting, this part would still apply to spontaneous casters), and that the individual rods' descriptions say, that the rods allow you to cast a metamagicked spell three times per day (which they do either way, since preparing a spell is the first step of casting the spell).

So, how do I use them?

Spontaneous casters (all of them, not just sorcerers) use them spontaneously and increase the casting time just as with the metamagic feats (except for the higher spell slot, of course).

Prepared casters have to declare which spells they prepare enhanced by the rod's power, each rod can only be used to have three such spells prepared at any time. You first have to empty a slot in order to prepare a new one, if you already have three spells prepared that way, even if that was days ago. During casting, the rod must be in hand and is used to alter the spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

...that you have to use the MetaMagic Rod at the time you prepare your spells (this takes 1 useage of the Rod) and then 1 more time when you cast it (this takes another useage of the Rod).

This is - of course - wrong.

Preparing and casting a single metamagicked spell with a metamagic rod takes up one use, since preparing a spell is part of the casting, really (as mentioned in the PHB).

The big question is... when is the daily use deducted. I would always take the actual casting as the point in time when the daily use is used up.

You can always construct some weird situations, where this or that doesn't look right, but in actual play it's usually not an issue, anyways. Just name three spells during preparation, which are to be enhanced with metamagic, later you cast them. On the next day, you prepare three new spells (or the same ones again). And so on.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Goolpsy]

I've always thought they worked at bit like the sudden Feats... activate upon finish casting the spell...

As i recall, the rod's doesn't take up higher level slots either... so...

 

[Thanee]

They are not usable once per day only. Besides, the rods are a lot older than the sudden feats.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Rystil Arden]

This is indeed a hotly-debated topic. Despite what either side will tell you, there is not in any way definitive proof for either way. Personally, I believe I see clear intent for spontaneous use, but the actual wording is written poorly so it could go either way, and the less powerful (some will say more-balanced, which is debatable considering the hefty price tags but definitely true for Quicken if not any of the others) way is the one tha forces pre-prepping them.