Question on using MetaMagic Rods...

[Thanee]

What I mean with more balanced is mostly between the classes.

For example, with spontaneous use wizards would be able to use metamagic spontaneously without an increase in casting time, while sorcerers would suffer from the time increase.

That just doesn't seem right.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Rystil Arden]

What I mean with more balanced is mostly between the classes.

For example, with spontaneous use wizards would be able to use metamagic spontaneously without an increase in casting time, while sorcerers would suffer from the time increase.

That just doesn't seem right.

Bye
Thanee

Ah, I see. I've seen others who argue it just makes the rods more balanced in general. Frankly, I'm not worried about the rods being balanced between spellcasting classes. If you find a magic item that lets you store a spell inside it and treat that spell as Known as long as you wear the item, that favours the sorcerer.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, there are certainly plenty items, which are better for one class or another.

But an item, that works like the feat for one, and completely different for the other, is simply wrong.

Besides, I'm also of the opinion, that the rods are overpowered, even if you use them as I suggest.

Breaking the level cap is rarely a good idea.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

When applying a metamagic feat at casting time, a sorcerer takes extra time:
But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell.

The metamagic rod description explicitly states that this still applies when a sorcerer uses a metamagic rod; therefore using the metamagic rod is applying the metamagic feat on the spot to a spell not prepared in a metamagic form in advance, and thus extra time is required.

There is an assumption that this also applies to a bard using a metamagic rod, or a cleric or druid using a metamagic rod with a spell cast spontaneously, despite the rod description only mentioning sorcerers.

Now, if we allow a wizard (or other prepared caster) to use a metamagic rod to apply a metamagic feat on the spot to a spell not prepared in a metamagic form in advance, the same logic demands that - just as for a bard, who is not specifically mentioned in the rod description - the casting will require extra time. But, of course, this means that the Metamagic Quicken Rod is completely useless, as no caster will be able to make use of it - no matter who is using the Rod, the casting will require a full-round action... making Quicken pointless.

The existence of the Quicken rod suggests that someone must be able to use it... which means someone must use it to apply the feat at preparation time, because applying the feat at casting time doesn't work.

And that's why I'm in the 'Used just like the feat' camp - applied at casting time for casters that don't prepare, and at preparation time for those who do...

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Besides, I'm also of the opinion, that the rods are overpowered, even if you use them as I suggest.

Breaking the level cap is rarely a good idea.

No more overpowered than the core ability of the Artificer that lets them pump crazy amounts of Metamagic into their wands--both cost tons of money and do crazy amounts of damage. Still, it is definitely a powerful ability indeed.

 

[Thanee]

Using the Artificer ability as an argument for balance (not that you really do so) is also simply wrong.

That's just like saying... but hey, with Divine Metamagic you can do that, too.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Rystil Arden]

Using the Artificer ability as an argument for balance (not that you really do so) is also simply wrong.

That's just like saying... but hey, with Divine Metamagic you can do that, too.

Bye
Thanee

Divine Metamagic is in a whole 'nother league because it doesn't cost any cash. But all of them are still pretty powerful, probably too powerful. Divine Metamagic is *definitely* too powerful.

 

[Thanee]

The lesser rods aren't really expensive. A lesser rod of empower is merely 9k.

Feats and class abilities also have a rather high cost attached to them.

Bye
Thanee