Question RE: Weapon Proficiency and Encounter Powers

[Drayven]

Hello all, I recently started running a 4e campaign after being away from tabletop gaming for a few years and a couple questions have come up that I'm hoping you all can help me with. Please be gentle, I'm a first time DM

First question, I have a player who has the Dwarven Weapon Training feat which gives +2 to attack and damage rolls. My question is how this applies to abilities that show as like 2[W]. If they are using a 1d10 hammer and an ability that is 2[W] do they get the +2 damage twice or just once? Would the 'weapon damage' include the +2 I guess is the real question. Is 2[W] 2d10+4 or 2d10+2. And if they are using an ability that's like 2[W] plus str modifier would it be say 2d10+2+4 (assuming 4 is their str modifier) or 2d10+4+4?

Second question. If someone uses an encounter power and misses is that power still tapped for that encounter? I think the answer is yes but at the same time it feels kinda severe and I'm considering house ruling that if it misses it's still available. Is my understanding of the rule correct?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Grabuto138]

Maybe the easiest way to think of it is: you apply those bonuses (including weapon focus etc.) once for each attack roll. So 1W, 2W it doesn't matter. The character only gets the bonus once. Further posts will amost certainly point out exceptions to this, but in your specific question the character only applies the bonus once. (Edit) Same with ability score modifiers, so basically it is: xW + ability modifier + feat bonus + magic bonus. But you must read the specific power because it can vary (look at Twin Strike, for example, and see if you can tell what I mean).

The enounter power is spent. It really isn't that harsh, and it adds a level of drama. Be careful with those house rules because they have unintended consequences. Some (all the new ones, I think) Wizard powers cause damage on a miss. So you would be stepping on one of their advantages. The Slayer and Thief have encounter abilities slighter weaker than most enounter powers but they can invoke them after they roll the dice. This houserule would also makes them weaker.

Also, the daily power is spent. Missing on your daily hurts but, once again, it adds drama. Since specific trumps general, powers marked "reliable" are NOT spent on a miss. And some daily powers have effects even if they miss. The relative strength among the various powers can be thrown out of wack if you change this casually.

 

[Droogie128]

DWT does not give a +2 to attack rolls. It only gives proficiency and a +2 to damage.

 

[DracoSuave]

DWT gives proficiency and a damage bonus.

You are technically correct in that proficiency gives you a +2 (or +3) to hit with most weapons, however it's an on/off thing. If you already had proficiency before, DWT doesn't give you any sort of double proficiency or nothing. You just get the bonus, which is listed with the weapon.

The damage bonus is applied to each damage roll. This is important. It doesn't matter how many dice, or how many [W] you throw together, it is all one damage roll, and therefore your bonuses add to that damage roll only once.

Encounter powers are used up if you do not hit with them. This is why it's a good idea to maximise their potential with combat advantage/hit bonuses etc. It's not a huge deal if you miss tho. Don't errata this: many powers have effects on a miss and such errata would make 'always miss' builds very strong.

Don't think it hasn't been tried either.

 

[Drayven]

Thanks for the feedback all. I misspoke earlier and we aren't applying the +2 to the attack roll just the damage. But it's good to know that it only applies once.

As for the encounter powers thing thanks for clearing that up to. I guess I'll just leave it alone, it's almost like the people that make this game have worked on it for years and know what they're doing... crazy...

 

[Joshua Randall]

Also note that every Daily power has one (or more) of the following:

* a "Miss" entry (something that happens when you miss, such as half damage)
* an "Effect" entry (something that "just happens" when you use the power, regardless of Hit or Miss)
* is Reliable (you regain use of the power if you miss)

It took me a while to realize this when I first started playing 4e. When you use a Daily, soemthing always happens.

 

[Dausuul]

First question, I have a player who has the Dwarven Weapon Training feat which gives +2 to attack and damage rolls. My question is how this applies to abilities that show as like 2[W]. If they are using a 1d10 hammer and an ability that is 2[W] do they get the +2 damage twice or just once? Would the 'weapon damage' include the +2 I guess is the real question. Is 2[W] 2d10+4 or 2d10+2. And if they are using an ability that's like 2[W] plus str modifier would it be say 2d10+2+4 (assuming 4 is their str modifier) or 2d10+4+4?

[W] signifies the weapon damage die, period. It includes no modifiers of any kind. So for a d10 hammer, 2[W] is 2d10. Dwarven Weapon Training makes it 2d10+2. If adding a Strength bonus of 4, it's 2d10+6 (2d10+2+4). If the weapon is a +1 hammer, it becomes 2d10+7 (2d10+2+4+1)... et cetera.

Second question. If someone uses an encounter power and misses is that power still tapped for that encounter? I think the answer is yes but at the same time it feels kinda severe and I'm considering house ruling that if it misses it's still available. Is my understanding of the rule correct?

In most cases, the answer is yes; encounter and daily powers are expended whether they hit or miss. The exceptions are:

a) Powers with the Reliable keyword. These are specifically not expended on a miss. A lot of the older fighter dailies have this.
b) Powers that don't have to be declared until you've already hit, such as an Essentials fighter's Power Strike.