Question regarding Sneak Attack

[Greenfield]

We had a Rogue/Wizard that had been captured, stripped of all gear (including material components), and subjected to the bite of a small insect whose venom was supposed to prevent the concentration needed for spell casting. (I'm not sure where the DM came up with this from, and it doesn't matter.)

A Lycanthrope then entered his cell and ordered the character, "Do what you do!", to see if he had any magical ability left.

Seeing that he was expecting a spell, the Rogue kicked him in the shins, as his Surprise action. Then, beating the Lycanthrope on the Initiative, he caught him Flat Footed and kicked him in the other shin.

Aside from the raucous laughter around the table at the image presented (Whisper Gnome kicking a Were Bear in the shins), this scene raised a few questions: 1) Can the Whisper Gnome use Sneak Attack with non-lethal attacks, such as untrained unarmed strikes?

2) Will Sneak Attack damage go through if the original attack didn't top an opponent's DR? (Were Bear's have DR10/Silver.)

 

[Nebten]

1) With unarmed strikes and a sap, yes.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

2) You count up all the damage, sneak attack included. If that total is over 10, then he'll take the remainder in damage.

 

[Jimlock]

Correct.

One minor addition. SA damage is always of the same type of HP damage as the base HP damage of the attack. It is not treated as damage A and damage B. SA is simply the bonus a rogue gets for knowing when and where to hit with precision.
For example, SA damage from a scorching ray, is fire damage as well.
(check CArc p85 for more info on that)

 

[Sekhmet]

Aside from what isn't addressed above (all very accurate), remember that he still has to say he's going to Sneak Attack, and it can't be by kicking a lycanthrope in the shin.

 

[the Jester]

Aside from what isn't addressed above (all very accurate), remember that he still has to say he's going to Sneak Attack, and it can't be by kicking a lycanthrope in the shin.

Ummm... what?

Where do the rules say anything about announcing a sneak attack? AFAIK if you meet the conditions to sneak attack, bam, you sneak attack.

And why on earth can't you sneak attack by kicking a lycanthrope in the shins?

 

[Dandu]

It clearly says in the entry of sneak attack that you must yell "Sneak Attack" as you make the attack.

 

[Sekhmet]

Ummm... what?

Where do the rules say anything about announcing a sneak attack? AFAIK if you meet the conditions to sneak attack, bam, you sneak attack.

And why on earth can't you sneak attack by kicking a lycanthrope in the shins?

If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

I'd hardly call the shin a vital spot.
Also, it has always been my understanding that you must declare any action, to avoid confusion.
A level 20 monk giving you the old fist bump is technically striking your hand, and under your assumption, dealing 2d10 damage when he does it.
Proper explanation (like commas) saves (or takes?) lives.

Amusing sidenote, using the rules of gibbing (from Quake), the Monk would be dealing (at least on average) 4 times the amount of HP of a standard human. When he gives a guy a fist bump at the bar, that man would explode.

 

[Dandu]

I have no problem with someone making a sneak attack and fluffing it as a kick to the shin if the conditions for a sneak attack are met.

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION] One of the conditions is striking a vital area. This is the entire reason behind certain creature types being immune to sneaks/criticals, and why Sneak Attack doesn't work on things that are immune to criticals.

I'd happily allow for a feat that accomplished this, as there are many feats that allow you to sneak things typically immune, but no one would ever take it.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If a DM told me my sneak attacks didn't get to deal sneak attack damage because I neglected to declared I wanted to deal it before rolling the attacks, I'd punch him straight on in the throat. And then as he desperately gasped for air, clutching his windpipe, yell, "Sneak Attack! ...oh, wait. I was supposed to declare it before sucker punching you...guess I failed to hit a vital area, then. Bummer."

[sblock]Totally maybe not being serious[/sblock]