Question with Heal

[Will]

I thought I already answered this in my earlier posts. I think it is character level because it doesn't say caster level. If you ask what level someone is, they will answer with their character level. I said that I like to think that whatever is written was done so intentionally until I see evidence to the contrary.

Well, if we are going to be sticklers for wording, what you actually said was that you thought it was written intentionally. Not that that's what you'd prefer.
Yes, there's an ambiguity in wording because they didn't say caster level nor character level. The question is intent, and I was asking why you thought the intention was character level.
Wording is not always precise. Most of the time it is, but not always.
Normally I'd say that character level is default, but the precedent of spells strongly suggests otherwise.

The character is older and wiser, has more experience, whatever. The thing is, that doesn't matter. Many things don't have good explanations and are just there for mechanical reasons (like spending XP on spells). You can come up with explanations if you think hard enough, but the mechanic wasn't placed there to represent any real or fantasy world physics. It was placed there because of how it mechanically affected the game.

It does matter. If you are right, this spell is different from every single other spell around. Moreso, the writers decided not to point this out, and instead of saying 'it's based on character level!!,' they just include it as an offhand default of 'well, we didn't -say- _caster_.'
You could make the argument about experience for every other spell, including all those cure spells.

Your claim is that of all the spells out there, for some reason Heal is the only one in which the character's non-caster levels are going to have an impact.

This is valid, but it can be used to support either side. Your side is saying that since it is always based on character level for every other spell (except for what you mention) it has precedent and must follow the same mechanics. However, you could also go the other way. Since every other spell that is based on character level says that it is based on character level and heal says something different, that must mean that it IS different.

Or it could be unintentionally ambiguous. After all, character level doesn't come up in any spell relating to the power of a cast spell. Spell power is always based on the caster level.
If it was going to be such a departure, wouldn't it say character level?

And, like I said, I've written stuff like this. If I was going to depart from standard rules, I'd be _very_ clear about it.

 

[Will]

No bad feelings on my part, Lamoni. I had a similar reaction to my inherent bonus thread. Was hoping for faq/errata, didn't get any.

 

[Lamoni]

Normally I'd say that character level is default, but the precedent of spells strongly suggests otherwise.
...
Or it could be unintentionally ambiguous. After all, character level doesn't come up in any spell relating to the power of a cast spell. Spell power is always based on the caster level.

Good point. It could be said that it mentions that spell power is based on caster level (IIRC), but I don't want to be too argumentative (maybe I already crossed that line). I can see how they could think that level of the caster was 'obviously' meant to be caster level.

It does matter. If you are right, this spell is different from every single other spell around. Moreso, the writers decided not to point this out, and instead of saying 'it's based on character level!!,' they just include it as an offhand default of 'well, we didn't -say- _caster_.'
You could make the argument about experience for every other spell, including all those cure spells.

Your claim is that of all the spells out there, for some reason Heal is the only one in which the character's non-caster levels are going to have an impact.

I still don't think that it matters. Many spells are very unique. There are some unique traits about magic missile. You can say of all the spells out there, ____ is the only one that can do ____, while doing/not doing ____.
In rules, I think that mechanics always come before believability. Mechanics make the game work. believability comes from how well you can role play and overlook things that just don't fit well with the rest of the rules or just don't make sense.

If it was going to be such a departure, wouldn't it say character level?

And, like I said, I've written stuff like this. If I was going to depart from standard rules, I'd be _very_ clear about it.

That is true. I do the same thing. If something is different from most other things of its type, I emphasize its difference. You already pointed out how that change would make it different from almost all other spells so I can accept the argument that they would add an extra line of text to make it more clear.

I just wish that this was always done. Harm is a good example. They re-worded it where the wording is sort of ambiguous... however as written it makes a a big change that allows you to kill a creature with the spell. If it was me writing the rules, I would have emphasized this since it was a change from how it was... otherwise people can easily say that they were just careless in their grammer and they didn't mean to change anything.

Anyway, I am satisfied with the responses. I'll drop the issue so that I don't annoy any more people.