Questions about skeletons and zombies!

[Asmo]

A skeleton that is " reduced to 0 hitpoints or less it is immediately destroyed." (MM. p.317)
I was wondering about the term "immediately destroyed":
what does it mean:immediately destroyed like Vampires in Buffy The Vampire Slayer -turned to dust more or less - or they just fall to the ground like any other defeated enemy?

(I´m aware that this is a part of their "Undead Traits" like zombies etc, so what happens with a zombie that´s reduced to 0 or less hitpoints?)

How do you DM:s out there run this?

My second question is more of a general question about CR:s, but since I´m gonna send some zombies at my party I´ll take a humman commoner zombie as an example ( MM. p.266):
they usually attacks with a club or a slam attack,their AC suck and they are restricted to single actions.
What if I gave them longswords to have them deal more damage? What if I gave them shields and armors to boost their AC? Make them attack and move like the PC:s?

I was reading chapter 4 in the MM " Improving monsters" ( p.290) without getting any wiser.
Would these changes alter the EL or a CR? Is there any guidelines for these kind of minor changes?

Asmo

 

[darthkilmor]

just add more! and make them grapple and bite the pc's

 

[dcollins]

A skeleton that is " reduced to 0 hitpoints or less it is immediately destroyed." (MM. p.317)
I was wondering about the term "immediately destroyed":
what does it mean:immediately destroyed like Vampires in Buffy The Vampire Slayer -turned to dust more or less - or they just fall to the ground like any other defeated enemy?

The main issue is this: don't track negative hit points, don't bleed out, don't look for -10 hit points to be dead -- undead that hit 0 hit points are finished, fully extinguished. It's up to the DM what the description should be. (For me I run it like a zombie movie, they fall down broken and motionless.)

My second question is more of a general question about CR:s, but since I´m gonna send some zombies at my party I´ll take a humman commoner zombie as an example ( MM. p.266):
they usually attacks with a club or a slam attack,their AC suck and they are restricted to single actions.
What if I gave them longswords to have them deal more damage? What if I gave them shields and armors to boost their AC? Make them attack and move like the PC:s?

I was reading chapter 4 in the MM " Improving monsters" ( p.290) without getting any wiser.
Would these changes alter the EL or a CR? Is there any guidelines for these kind of minor changes?

You can do that. Any EL adjustment would be ad-hoc by the DM, give it +1 or +2 EL if you think it got noticably tougher.

 

[Silveras]

A skeleton that is " reduced to 0 hitpoints or less it is immediately destroyed." (MM. p.317)
I was wondering about the term "immediately destroyed":
what does it mean:immediately destroyed like Vampires in Buffy The Vampire Slayer -turned to dust more or less - or they just fall to the ground like any other defeated enemy?

(I´m aware that this is a part of their "Undead Traits" like zombies etc, so what happens with a zombie that´s reduced to 0 or less hitpoints?)

How do you DM:s out there run this?

My second question is more of a general question about CR:s, but since I´m gonna send some zombies at my party I´ll take a humman commoner zombie as an example ( MM. p.266):
they usually attacks with a club or a slam attack,their AC suck and they are restricted to single actions.
What if I gave them longswords to have them deal more damage? What if I gave them shields and armors to boost their AC? Make them attack and move like the PC:s?

I was reading chapter 4 in the MM " Improving monsters" ( p.290) without getting any wiser.
Would these changes alter the EL or a CR? Is there any guidelines for these kind of minor changes?

Asmo

I have usually had them just collapse where they are when destroyed.

As to the changing the weapons, remember that Zombies are proficient in what they were proficient in while alive (see the Template in the MM). Human Commoners were not proficient in Longsword (generally), so the Zombies would take a -4 penalty to their attacks.

This does give you, as DM, some latitude in handling the CR, and room for creativity. You could use Warriors instead of Commoners as the base creature, for example, and not have the penalty; the CR is probably unchanged in that case. If the Zombies are taking a -4 penalty, though, that might be enough to reduce the CR.

Story questions would arise, though: "They were the bodies of farmers, but someone gave each of them a shiny new sword. Hmmm. Something more than just spontaneous animation at work here, I think."

 

[Asmo]

As to the changing the weapons, remember that Zombies are proficient in what they were proficient in while alive (see the Template in the MM). Human Commoners were not proficient in Longsword (generally), so the Zombies would take a -4 penalty to their attacks.

Good catch, never thought of that!

Asmo

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

And, as for "making them attack more like the PCs," remember that zombies are unintelligent; PCs [generally] are not.

Don't make the zombies attack too intelligently.

 

[Evilhalfling]

not to mention armor - ex-warriors could be wearing still useable armor - your all ready paying 50 gp per body, throwing in some armor, better weapons and a shield is not to much to protect your investment.
I would'nt raise CR for just weapons and shields, perahaps a +10% xp if it made a difference (ie they were fought rather than turned to dust) My slain undead just fall over, with the last blow destroying something important (skull, spine, etc) now when they are destroyed by turning or positive energy, you get fun death scenes.

 

[IcyCool]

As to the changing the weapons, remember that Zombies are proficient in what they were proficient in while alive (see the Template in the MM). Human Commoners were not proficient in Longsword (generally), so the Zombies would take a -4 penalty to their attacks.

Of course, they could be the local town militia (who have Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword), or you could give your farmers Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe and watch the fun.

 

[Asmo]

Of course, they could be the local town militia (who have Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword), or you could give your farmers Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe and watch the fun.

That´s one thing that I never ever use against a 1 lvl party : Scythes and Greatswords, they are just to deadly.
But thanks for the tips

Asmo

 

[Silveras]

I guess the best way to summarize my suggestion is this:

Skeletons and Zombies are Templated creatures. Instead of trying to figure out how to nudge the finished product, take a slightly different (or better) base creature and just apply the Template.