Questions / Comments

[RWilliamsCFD]

Howdy! I really like the look of the O.L.D. game so far, and I'm sure N.E.W. is just as good, though I haven't gotten to it yet. My GM thinks so too. I did have a couple of questions though.

1: I didn't see any overland travel rules. Like, how fast you can move, and how long you can go. Can you push yourself or your horse with possible consequences? I know the stuff posted isn't complete, so I was just wondering if that's something to come, or if you have no intention of going into that.

2: Call it nitpicky, but I like a system that's not mostly esoteric or story telling based to have rules for eating, drinking, and sleeping. Like, what happens if you don't. Again, I didn't notice them, so was wondering if they're in the works, or if you've no plans of going that detailed.

3: In the stronghold section, you have the stronghold templates. You have the same price for a range of number of squares. Ultimate Campaign for Pathfinder did something similar, and it bugged the heck out of me. How can a building made of five 5x5 squares cost the same as one made of fifteen? Maybe have a price per square for each example size. That way you can still have the different costs per square you have.

Thank you, I'm looking forward to seeing the material in its completion.

 

[Morrus]

Howdy! I really like the look of the O.L.D. game so far, and I'm sure N.E.W. is just as good, though I haven't gotten to it yet. My GM thinks so too. I did have a couple of questions though.

Awesome! I like questions!

1: I didn't see any overland travel rules. Like, how fast you can move, and how long you can go. Can you push yourself or your horse with possible consequences? I know the stuff posted isn't complete, so I was just wondering if that's something to come, or if you have no intention of going into that.

On page 244 you'll see a blank page with a heading and a single paragraph. That is the introduction to a whole (as yet unwritten) chapter on exactly that subject! So yep, there will be plenty of wilderness travel, exploration, and survival rules. That's very important to me and I want to get it right. With added circling helicopter shots of hobbits walking across mountains!

2: Call it nitpicky, but I like a system that's not mostly esoteric or story telling based to have rules for eating, drinking, and sleeping. Like, what happens if you don't. Again, I didn't notice them, so was wondering if they're in the works, or if you've no plans of going that detailed.

Actually, I'm undecided. That would fit into the wilderness chapter I mentioned above, but I want to find out whether that's something folks would find tedious - many modern fantasy games have reduced or eliminated such rules for that exact reason. That said, I am very open to thoughts on that. Optional rules might be the way ahead there.

3: In the stronghold section, you have the stronghold templates. You have the same price for a range of number of squares. Ultimate Campaign for Pathfinder did something similar, and it bugged the heck out of me. How can a building made of five 5x5 squares cost the same as one made of fifteen? Maybe have a price per square for each example size. That way you can still have the different costs per square you have.

You can choose to use the "Brick By Brick" rules directly below that (same page). The GM will need to decide which approach he wants in his game - the simple template system or the detailed system where you purchase each individual square.

 

[docdoom77]

Actually, I'm undecided. That would fit into the wilderness chapter I mentioned above, but I want to find out whether that's something folks would find tedious - many modern fantasy games have reduced or eliminated such rules for that exact reason. That said, I am very open to thoughts on that. Optional rules might be the way ahead there.

I'm of the opinion, that if you have the time, you should definitely present them as optional rules.

 

[dekrass]

I would like to see rules for deprivation included, as well.

 

[Sniperfox47]

Actually, I'm undecided. That would fit into the wilderness chapter I mentioned above, but I want to find out whether that's something folks would find tedious - many modern fantasy games have reduced or eliminated such rules for that exact reason. That said, I am very open to thoughts on that. Optional rules might be the way ahead there.

(emphasis mine)

Aside: I never understood explicitly stating that rules in an RPG were optional. Aren't all rules in an RPG optional?

Back on topic though, I like the idea of having rules for sleep, hunger, thirst, and others (I've yet to see an RPG that gives rules for excretion. Could be the first!), even if they're given as an example variant. The primary issue I see with that is that those factors may be largely race-dependent in a lot of settings.

 

[docdoom77]

(emphasis mine)

Aside: I never understood explicitly stating that rules in an RPG were optional. Aren't all rules in an RPG optional?

Back on topic though, I like the idea of having rules for sleep, hunger, thirst, and others (I've yet to see an RPG that gives rules for excretion. Could be the first!), even if they're given as an example variant. The primary issue I see with that is that those factors may be largely race-dependent in a lot of settings.

Yes, but some are more optional than others. Once you get the game in your hands you can do whatever you want with it, but rules with the optional tag are optional by design. Something the designer has thrown in, beyond the core rules, either to satisfy a personal itch or to cater to certain play-style. The optional tag definitely has a place.

 

[Khaalis]

Actually, I'm undecided. That would fit into the wilderness chapter I mentioned above, but I want to find out whether that's something folks would find tedious - many modern fantasy games have reduced or eliminated such rules for that exact reason. That said, I am very open to thoughts on that. Optional rules might be the way ahead there.

Another vote here for these rules being an "optional" subset. Most gamers I know prefer the Indiana Jones "Red Line" form of travel. If the travel really doesn't have a direct impact on the story (such as running LotR where the travel really IS the adventure) most people want to skip over the superfluous "random encounters" and other Resource management drains and have a simple way to handle how much resources you used. I honestly think Dungeon World has a great system for this. Might be a place to start for a "simplified" travel rule.

 

[TiwazTyrsfist]

Aside: I never understood explicitly stating that rules in an RPG were optional. Aren't all rules in an RPG optional?

I have played a lot of RPGs with people whom I don't consider close friends, or even really acquaintances. With friends or a regular gaming group, I don't generally have this problem because we can all fairly readily agree on whether or not a specific section of rules is bogging down the game, or something we want to focus more on.

However, when I game with people who aren't close friends, or who I don't even particularly know, such as but not limited to, People in the dorm at college, People at a Convention of any sort, People at open game night who are not my usual gaming group, I frequently (about 30% of the time) run into the following problem.
A person holds up a book, "This is an officially licensed/published supplement and it says XXXXX therefore it's the rules and you must let me do XXXXX and/or you must do XXXXX within the confines of this game/adventure". This results in one of three scenarios. 1> the GM goes "Fine, whatever" and we go along with this persons demand even though it derails the game. 2> The GM argues with the person, endlessly, until the person gives up or leaves, this however taints the game and ruins a lot of the fun. 3> the GM argues with the person until the GM gives up and leaves, and there is then no game.

Thus, having rules which are Fiddly (you MUST track your food carried, and material spell components, and remember to tell the GM that you stopped to eat lunch and drink water) or which are potentially game breaking (I am a lizard man, this class lets me alter the stats of reptiles with no limit, I make myself size gargantuan and grant myself strength 47, Pun-pun ahoy!) clearly labeled as OPTIONAL allows a GM trying to run a game for people he doesn't know well to head off these rules lawyer esque arguments.

Yes, there ARE rules for the Italian military requiring more water rations because they need to cook their pasta as well as having drinking water, but water tracking is an OPTIONAL rule set, and we aren't using it, because I don't feel the need to track minutia down to that level.

And so on.



So, I also agree that rules for deprivation are a good thing, but would really like them to have a heading as OPTIONAL RULES so that they can easily be disregarded when they don't need to be used without argument.

I mean, food and water tracking and deprivation rules are good and thematic to a game when you're travelling through a desert or wasteland, or adrift on the ocean or a salt sea, but when you're walking through woodlands with clear streams and lots of available game, I don't like to bother with tracking how many rations the characters bought, or keeping track of if they stopped to eat.

 

[GMMichael]

Yes, there ARE rules for the Italian military requiring more water rations because they need to cook their pasta as well as having drinking water, but water tracking is an OPTIONAL rule set, and we aren't using it, because I don't feel the need to track minutia down to that level.

Where's [MENTION=6677017]Sword of Spirit[/MENTION] when we need him?

A little rules-elegance goes a long way. You don't need to have rules on hunger, daily water maintenance levels, or breaths-per-minute if your rules (or core rules) make sense.

Take the exposure rules from D&D 3.5. Yes, they're in the Rules Compendium. No, they're not simple. My character is walking through 10 degree weather for fifteen minutes. What happens to him? Well, he could take damage, subdual damage, constitution damage, temporary constitution damage, a status condition like nauseated, some random penalties to dex checks for freezing...

There's no clear answer, except for the official ruling in RC.

Now, another system that doesn't have three different physical abilities, nor subdual damage, nor status conditions, makes it easier for the GM to look at his toolbox and say, "your character takes one damage per hour" or "you take a physical penalty each hour."
[MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]: From the W.O.I.N. rules and character sheets that I've seen, there's enough complexity in the game to warrant giving GMs some guidance. If you're confident that GMs can make a responsible adjudication on their own, don't worry about it.