Questions on "Silence" Spell

[hong]

I just ban silence.

 

[hong]

I just ban silence.

Shut up, hong.

 

[frankthedm]

If the silence spell is so bad, making a low level counter to it would be fair.

Amplify
Evocation
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/wizard 2
Components: S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)
Upon the casting of this spell, everything in the area become far louder. Whispers become as loud as a normal talking and conversations become shouting matches. All listen check DCs for sounds originating in the area are reduced by 15. Any sonic effect within the area loud enough to cause a creature harm, such as a spell with the Sonic descriptor has the additional effect of a thunderstone. This also expends the energy of the amplify spell.

Multiple Amplify effects don’t stack. Amplify counters and dispels Silence. Silence counters and dispels Amplify.

Material component: A thunderstone.

 

[irdeggman]

If the silence spell is so bad, making a low level counter to it would be fair.

Amplify
Evocation
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/wizard 2
Components: S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)
Upon the casting of this spell, everything in the area become far louder. Whispers become as loud as a normal talking and conversations become shouting matches. All listen check DCs for sounds originating in the area are reduced by 15. Any sonic effect within the area loud enough to cause a creature harm, such as a spell with the Sonic descriptor has the additional effect of a thunderstone. This also expends the energy of the amplify spell.

Multiple Amplify effects don’t stack. Amplify counters and dispels Silence. Silence counters and dispels Amplify.

Material component: A thunderstone.

Except that all bard spells have a verbal component - which is why they can't apply the silent spell feat to their spells.

Spells: A bard casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music). To learn or cast a spell, a bard must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the bard’s Charisma modifier.

SILENT SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected. A silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.

Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat.

 

[moritheil]

Except that all bard spells have a verbal component - which is why they can't apply the silent spell feat to their spells.

Bards can countersong silence, though, can't they? Just remove bard from that proposed spell and things should be OK.

 

[two]

Just give silence a will save.

It is ridiculously strong as an anti-caster spell.

Have a low level caster or cohort ready to cast SILENCE when the enemy starts to cast a spell...{triggers action, silence is cast in the area of the enemy spellcaster, ruining his spell}

Really way too easy and powerful.

 

[moritheil]

Just give silence a will save.

It is ridiculously strong as an anti-caster spell.

Have a low level caster or cohort ready to cast SILENCE when the enemy starts to cast a spell...{triggers action, silence is cast in the area of the enemy spellcaster, ruining his spell}

Really way too easy and powerful.

That hasn't actually been a problem IMC. Sure, the PCs hosed some enemy casters by doing this, but they also wasted silences countering spells like magic missile. (Suppose you encounter eight enemy mages. You know that they aren't equally powerful. Which ones do you include in the radius of silence? The same problem exists with one enemy mage with mirror images up - you don't know which one the real one is; where do you situate your effect?)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Spells: A bard casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music). To learn or cast a spell, a bard must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the bard’s Charisma modifier.

That's an out of date passage. More recent printings of the PHB list it as most bard spells having a V component, and several of the newer spells in newer books lack such a component.

 

[irdeggman]

Bards can countersong silence, though, can't they? Just remove bard from that proposed spell and things should be OK.

I don't think so.

Countersong (Su): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components). Each round of the countersong, he makes a Perform check. Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself ) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard’s Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within range of the countersong is already under the effect of a noninstantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the countersong, but it must use the bard’s Perform check result for the save. Countersong has no effect against effects that don’t allow saves. The bard may keep up the countersong for 10 rounds.

They can use Silence as a counterspell but that is while the silence spell is being cast not as a dispel effect.

 

[irdeggman]

That's an out of date passage. More recent printings of the PHB list it as most bard spells having a V component, and several of the newer spells in newer books lack such a component.

Its from the SRD (WotC site) but I will check my 2nd printing (collector's edition) text for any "stealth" errata, I'm pretty sure I had before and it was still there.

I have only seen one new spell (in the Spell Compendium) that is a bard only spell and has no V component. I still feel they messed that up since it is in direct contrast to the core rule and the core rule meshes with the rule on Silent Spell.