Quick, nasty combo to kill Orcus etc

[Nifft]

Given that one Ranger could kill Orcus in one round on the day that 4e came out, I think a 25% chance for five rounds of stun-lock isn't too terrible.

Cheers, -- N

 

[babinro]

I think the Stun condition needs to be used extremely scarcely, and probably never beyond one round. This should be true for both PC's and NPC's. Personally, I would like to see it introduced in Paragon tier as a daily generally as an attack roll to Stun with no damage. Effectively, you give up your turn to stop your opponants turn. In high end Epic you could probably make it an encounter power for certain classes but still keeping it to no more than one round.

I also think that the Stun condition should probably have a different functionality on solo's. Something highly effective, but not enough to make it useless. Perhaps something like a stunned solo instead has the Weakness, and slowed conditions with a -5 to all attack rolls and can make no opportunity attacks.

In the case of Golden Mean (I dont have the book so I dont have the details), but I would think it should at least require a subsequent attack roll each round to sustain the stun. And to make it even more balanced, each subsequent attack roll should probably have a cumulative -2 attack roll added to it allow for up to 5 rounds of stun given a lucky enough set of rolls.

 

[eriktheguy]

Given that one Ranger could kill Orcus in one round on the day that 4e came out, I think a 25% chance for five rounds of stun-lock isn't too terrible.

Cheers, -- N

If we use a potion of clarity +5 and activate our zone before the attack thats a 100% hit chance.

Your reasoning is that if one rule that was fixed before is REALLY broken, then a new combo that is only slightly broken is ok?

 

[BobTheNob]

But the whole Orb wizard "screw up a god because they cant save because RAW lets you get away with it" bit has been a problem from the start.

Thats why our group sais saves (regardless of modifiers in play) roll of 4 or lower automatic fail, roll of 15 or high automatic success. If your orb wizard with all the stupid gear gets gimped by the rule, suffer! (shame on you for trying to take advantage of something that buggers up the game experience for everyone for the sake of your own personnel glory)

 

[fnwc]

Second, Orcus has more than 1,500 hit points. How much damage can a party deal in five rounds?

Just to step in here, against a stun-locked Orcus, this is easily achievable given an average Epic party of 5 characters.

I would also guess that a party with an optimized Orb specialist Wizard is more likely to be more mechanically efficient than the average party.

 

[Nifft]

Your reasoning is that if one rule that was fixed before is REALLY broken, then a new combo that is only slightly broken is ok?

Nope (and thank you for asking; people assume all sorts of stupid things these days without so much as a by-your-leave).

My reasoning is: on the scale of broken to ZOMG TEH GAME IZ OVAR, this doesn't rank that high. Perhaps it should be fixed, but Orbizards in general need to be fixed first, and that might cover this too.

Cheers, -- N

 

[eriktheguy]

As for hitting Orcus, I'm pretty certain I could pull it off with a high level (+5) potion of clarity, and some other bonuses like action surge etc. As long as I can get a high enough bonus to hit on a 10 for one attack, I have a guaranteed hit, 5 round stunlock.

 

[FireLance]

Second, Orcus has more than 1,500 hit points. How much damage can a party deal in five rounds?

Enough to kill Orcus. I actually did the calculations as a thought experiment in the early days of 4e, using only material from the PH. I managed to come up with a party of 30th-level characters who could kill Orcus in five rounds provided nobody rolled a 1. Now that I've got Adventurer's Vault, the FRPG, Martial Power, PH2 and Arcane Power, I'm fairly sure I could do it in less than five rounds. While I won't go into the details, the key elements of the strategy were:

1. The warlord's Tactical Presence, which grants a bonus to attack rolls when an action point is used. This stacks nicely with some paragon path abilities which grant a further bonus to attack rolls when an action point is used.

2. Hand of the Gods (Paladin Encounter Attack 17) to give an early boost to attack rolls.

3. Armor Splinter (Ranger Encounter Attack 13) to lower Orcus's AC.

4. Lead the Attack (Warlord Daily Attack 1) to boost everybody's attack rolls against Orcus.

5. Chains of Sorrow (Fighter Encounter Attack 13) to lower Orcus's defences.

6. Plague of Doom (Cleric Encounter Attack 13) to lower Orcus's defences.

If I were to re-do the party now, I would give everyone Weapon or Implement Expertise, and use an eladrin warlord with the Spiral Tactician paragon path.

 

[eriktheguy]

Enough to kill Orcus. I actually did the calculations as a thought experiment in the early days of 4e, using only material from the PH. I managed to come up with a party of 30th-level characters who could kill Orcus in five rounds provided nobody rolled a 1. Now that I've got Adventurer's Vault, the FRPG, Martial Power, PH2 and Arcane Power, I'm fairly sure I could do it in less than five rounds. While I won't go into the details, the key elements of the strategy were:

1. The warlord's Tactical Presence, which grants a bonus to attack rolls when an action point is used. This stacks nicely with some paragon path abilities which grant a further bonus to attack rolls when an action point is used.

2. Hand of the Gods (Paladin Encounter Attack 17) to give an early boost to attack rolls.

3. Armor Splinter (Ranger Encounter Attack 13) to lower Orcus's AC.

4. Lead the Attack (Warlord Daily Attack 1) to boost everybody's attack rolls against Orcus.

5. Chains of Sorrow (Fighter Encounter Attack 13) to lower Orcus's defences.

6. Plague of Doom (Cleric Encounter Attack 13) to lower Orcus's defences.

If I were to re-do the party now, I would give everyone Weapon or Implement Expertise, and use an eladrin warlord with the Spiral Tactician paragon path.

You don't need to worry about rolling 1's. You also don't need to worry about having a huge to-hit chance. As long as you can guarantee that all the party members can hit on a 10 you are good. You just need to keep them almost adjacent to the Lord of Fate.

Note: there is no reason that more than one character in the party cannot learn to use 'Golden Mean', since you could have a wizard and a warlock both using it. Orcus is now stun locked for 10 rounds.

 

[evilbob]

Wizards have been able to stun-lock Orcus forever. You can easily find ways to just make the save -16 or higher, and then he'll never save against it.

The hardest part is hitting him in the first place, but even that can be managed.