Quick Out-of-Play Combat Resolution Needed

[howandwhy99]

If an EL:10 group of NPCs faces off against an EL:9 group of NPCs, who wins? How can I resolve this quickly with a single die roll or a quick, fistfull of dice? Is there any published or formally authorized method for handling this situation?

I guess a lot of people might say "Just make whoever you want to win by whatever degree you wish", but this isn't what I am looking for. Situations come up in my campaign were the number of NPCs (either allies or opponents) facing the PCs changes depending upon the actions of other NPCs. A quick skirmish resolution system would really help for on-the-fly DMing.

For example:
1. The PCs lead a 500 person army across snow laden, forested hills to attack an orc stronghold one week's travel away. At least one small band of orc skirmishers has been spotted and a few of the human outriders/trackers were killed. In response, the PCs choose to send an NPC unit of a size and makeup of their choice Out of sight of the players, the unit faces off against the orc skirmishers in battle. What happens? Who wins? Do any orcs get away to reach the stronghold to raise an alarm? Are the orc skirmishers even found?
- I grant A LOT of the end result will depend upon the choices of the PCs, the strategies and orders they give to the retaliatory unit captain, and how the PCs originally chose to train/recruit their army. HOwever, some quick resolution method should be able to work even if it's only a 50/50 same EL, 40/60 -1 EL, 30/70 -2 EL, etc. (These are numbers I just made up. I don't know the actual percentages.)

2. A similar scenario as above, but in reverse. The PCs run from an invading orc army after scouting and attempting to slow them down by attacking supply lines. A second human NPC skirmish group aids the PCs. The orcs send out a group to destroy the human skirmishers and find the NPC skirmishers first. Will they find the original PCs? How many orcs survive the NPC attack to go on and attack the PCs? Do any NPCs survive or escape to warn the PCs?
- Here I, the DM, make many of the choices out of sight. I could just make up what I want based on "I think this is coolest", but I'd prefer to simulate the event as much as possible.

Does anyone have any quick, simple systems for this?
Grim Tales mass combat may be modified to deal with this a little, but any help is appreciated.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Use EL as a modifier to a straight d20 roll.

So EL10 vs. EL9 is D20+10 vs d20+9 (close, but favors EL10).

Then have PC actions drive modifiers to their rolls. For example, if it's two armies facing off, and the PC's army is initially EL5, and the bad guys are EL 9, the following modifiers might come into play:

PCs set out skirmishers: +1
PCs place obstacles to channel army: +1
PCs force march to scene of battle: -1
PCs fight on ground of their choosing: +2
PCs choose to attack on enemy's ground: -2
Every 10% advantage in numbers the PCs gain: +1

etc ...

 

[S'mon]

Every 2 points of EL = a 100% increase in relative power, so using EL as a d20 mod doesn't work well.

If the ELs are equal, you can roll a d6 on the following table:

1. Side A wins, no losses
2. Side A wins, 25% losses
3. Side A wins, 50% losses
4. Side B wins, 50% losses
5. Side B wins, 25% losses
6. Side B wins, no losses.

If ELs differ, add the EL difference to the d6 roll, Side B is the side with the higher EL. Thus if EL difference is 2 (CR 7 hill giant vs CR 9 frost giant, say) and you roll a 1 + 2 = 3, the hill giant wins, with 50% hp left. Otherwise the frost giant wins.

 

[S'mon]

For a slightly more complex system where there is over 100 foes on each side, use the classic-D&D War Machine % system.

 

[Gold Roger]

PHB2 affiliations would come in handy here

Edit: if that's to much hassle, go with the piratecat rule: what would make for the coolest gaming situation.

 

[howandwhy99]

PHB2 affiliations would come in handy here

Edit: if that's to much hassle, go with the piratecat rule: what would make for the coolest gaming situation.

I don't have PHB2. How do affiliations work? I imagine they are just like "contacts" for the PCs or "team bonuses" like those in DMG2, only for membership to a guild or another organization.

The piratecat rule is a good one to go by and definitely brings the fun. The reason I posted is find a means to reward the players' decisions with appropriate consequences. However, I still want to allow chance to effect the results. In example 1: if the PC/Players send out a light, fast strike force of ranged attackers with orders not to close, but also not to let any orc live, then tracking in snow and speed and encounter distances in wooded hills will alter the outcome. Of course, so may other events if an orc gets away and alerts another orc raiding party who then attack the strike force.

By basing quick resolution rolls on factors the players take into account (or don't take into account) I feel I'm better serving their efforts to win. It's less cinematic, true, but rewards good play.


S'mon - that d6 system sounds awesome. Thanks! Is there anyway to add a bit more granularity to it? I suppose a d12 +/-2 per EL system works just a well.

Quick mass combat resoluton, like old D&D Warmachine or Cry Havoc, is already covered for me. The systems above do require some construction beforehand and are a bit less useful on-the-fly. They're still great foundations though. I'm developing my own, but for anyone who DMs with a computer: try the Farland system. It works well for very speedy mass combat when playing out the results isn't desired.


Thanks for bumping Olgar.

 

[S'mon]

S'mon - that d6 system sounds awesome. Thanks! Is there anyway to add a bit more granularity to it? I suppose a d12 +/-2 per EL system works just a well.

Yeah - I knocked that out just now because (a) I like d6s and (b) it lets you use EL as a straight mod. You can use a d20, and have +1 EL = a +3 d20 mod; as it happens I've used a simplified War Machine % system with CR 1 = Battle Rating 100, and every +1 CR = +15 BR, which is functionally identical to +3 on d20, so you might consider that.

 

[SWBaxter]

So far as mass combat systems go, I use the one in Cry Havoc, from Malhavoc. For small forces with no PC interaction, it's reasonably quick.

However, in the examples you present, it seems to me the result of the battle is going to set up the PCs' next adventure, so I'd be inclined to just resolve it by fiat rather than rolling. This is because (1) I don't want to be messing around with changing things on the fly in response to a random die roll that might be made in-session, and (2) my philosophy is that things that don't directly involve the players shouldn't get very much of my DMing attention, so I don't write up statblocks and spend time resolving fights they're not in. YMMV, that's just what works for me.

 

[BSF]

Take a look at the Farland Mass Combat system and see if it does what you are looking for.

 

[Nifft]

Any reason not to assign one set of stats to one player and the other set to a different player?

The guys I game with are competitive enough that they'd want to win even if they were playing the "bad guys".

Whip out the minis and have a quick skirmish match?

Cheers, -- N