D&D General Quick Question on Monster CR (Elite Griffons)

[SkidAce]

I know I can come up with an answer, but I like a certain verisimilitude in my designs, and ran into a thought concerning CR.

If I was designing a specific monster to challenge a specific party, easy peasy.

But I'm currently designing for a campaign setting. Was playing Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen, and fighting basically a legendary griffon (which apparently has lightning resist).

So the muse slaps me, I'm going to design griffons based on lightning and storms, and work them into the lore of my world. Thematics, no problem.

CR? Basic griffons are CR2, and their claws and multiattack can shred a commoner (4hp) and standard guards (11hp). So 99% (in my world) of NPCs are toast. Perfect for standard griffon.

I could double the CR to 4 (revise damage, attack, and hp to reflect), add lightning resist and there's the "Elite" griffon.

And then double the CR again (to 8) for the legendary griffon, and possibly higher (9/10) for specific individuals. This feels like it would work, and have a semi logical progression.

However, maybe you would go higher with your CRs, say 2, 6, 18? That seems a bit steep for griffons, but could work.

There is no real answer, just trying to get a feel for a progression that "seems" appropriate from a world view.

 

[Distracted DM]

I know I can come up with an answer, but I like a certain verisimilitude in my designs, and ran into a thought concerning CR.

If I was designing a specific monster to challenge a specific party, easy peasy.

But I'm currently designing for a campaign setting. Was playing Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen, and fighting basically a legendary griffon (which apparently has lightning resist).

So the muse slaps me, I'm going to design griffons based on lightning and storms, and work them into the lore of my world. Thematics, no problem.

CR? Basic griffons are CR2, and their claws and multiattack can shred a commoner (4hp) and standard guards (11hp). So 99% (in my world) of NPCs are toast. Perfect for standard griffon.

I could double the CR to 4 (revise damage, attack, and hp to reflect), add lightning resist and there's the "Elite" griffon.

And then double the CR again (to 8) for the legendary griffon, and possibly higher (9/10) for specific individuals. This feels like it would work, and have a semi logical progression.

However, maybe you would go higher with your CRs, say 2, 6, 18? That seems a bit steep for griffons, but could work.

There is no real answer, just trying to get a feel for a progression that "seems" appropriate from a world view.

You could look to A5E's elite monsters. They count as two monsters of their CR and present a genuine challenge, in part due to their Elite Recovery mechanic.

For example, an ogre vs a cave ogre (an elite ogre). Double the HP, more damage, can deal with hunting parties.

That way you're not doubling CR every time :'D

 

[Minigiant]

Well remember the big dinos are CR 5-8.

 

[SkidAce]

Dragons at various ages (blue i.e.) go CR 3, 9, 16, and 23 for ancient.

So my legendary griffons would be less than that.

Looking like CR 2,4,8 is hitting where I want 10-14 for specials.

Or 2, 6, 10, with 14-16 specials (this keeps pace with 2/3rds ish of dragon ages).

 

[dave2008]

Dragons at various ages (blue i.e.) go CR 3, 9, 16, and 23 for ancient.

So my legendary griffons would be less than that.

Looking like CR 2,4,8 is hitting where I want 10-14 for specials.

Or 2, 6, 10, with 14-16 specials (this keeps pace with 2/3rds ish of dragon ages).

I think the 2, 4, 8 progress makes a lot of sense. However, when designing them monsters I would suggest not getting to bog down in matching those CRs exactly. I the monster comes out with a CR a bit higher or lower that is OK. Design a good monster first - CR second.

 

[SkidAce]

I think the 2, 4, 8 progress makes a lot of sense. However, when designing them monsters I would suggest not getting to bog down in matching those CRs exactly. I the monster comes out with a CR a bit higher or lower that is OK. Design a good monster first - CR second.

Yeah, that makes sense. Really looking to make sure I at least start in the ballpark with a decent idea of progression that fits the world. And I think for "standard" griffons, 2/4/8 is solid, with specials 10-14.

Tough foes, escalating threat that falls just below dragons in the ecosystem.

 

[dave2008]

PS - here is PDF of alternate griffons from CR 2 - 10: Complete Griffons

 

[J-H]

I'd definitely include some higher CR ones. I think the Monster Manual setting iconic monsters like the T-Rex at only CR 8 was a balancing mistake because it removes them as viable challenges.

Once I get back to writing stuff again I'm planning to stat up an elder sperm whale with a CR somewhere in the 20s. They have echolocation, a possible sonic weapon (cone damage + stun), their hunting clicks will drive off orcas, and their skin is so thick that they just tank attacks from the giant squid they eat (~kraken?), plus the ability to dive to and withstand pressures that would kill any surface creature.

 

[SkidAce]

I watched the opening scene of Dragons Dogma II last night.

The griffon they were riding on seemed tough enough to fight a dragon.

I'm feeling griffons (higher CR) are underused in DnD.