D&D 5E Quick Thoughts: Ability Scores as defenses

[Xeviat]

Hi everyone. I'm looking through the feats as I'm starting to gather together some houserules and rebalances, when I noticed a little odd mechanic hidden away in one of the feats: Linguist

You can ably create written ciphers (others can’t decipher a codeyou create unless you teach them, they succeed on an Int check (DC equals Intelligence score + your proficiency bonus), or they use magic todecipher it.

Intelligence Score + Proficiency Bonus? What's that? That's wild.

That got me thinking. DCs "tend" to be bound somewhere between DC 10 and 20. Ish. Player spell save DC caps out at DC 19, unless I'm missing some bonus from somewhere. Attack bonuses cap out at +11. 20 is a normal AC without magic.

So I was wondering, in an effort to make ability scores matter and not just their ability modifier, how do you think this would change the game: the attacker always rolls to attack, and your ability scores are your Defenses?

Immediately, this would create a problem. Typically, a player only can afford to raise one or two ability scores, not all 6. An 8 would become a big weakness. But isn't it already a big weakness? An 8 defense is only marginally worse than a -1 save, no?

Now, if defenses were Proficiency bonus + Ability score, one or two of them would get incredibly out of hand; 26 Defense against a +11 attack would require a 15 or higher. But that's doable. You'd have to play a game of determining what the opponent's high defenses were before attacking. Typicals would be more in the 18-20 range. That's doable easily.

How do you think this could work out? If it could be balanced, do you think it could be interesting? Or would you like to see something more like different modifiers for odds and evens for different things? Or just switch to the modifiers and roast the sacred cow of 3-20 stats?

 

[Horwath]

I would not kill the sacred cow of abilities of 3-20.

Maybe just mutilate it a little to 6-15 range. modifiers of -4 to +5.

That way every ability score equals one ability modifier. Gets rid of odd scores that do (almost) nothing.

average would be 10(+0) max start would be 14(+4) and max without magic would be 15(+5).

on point buy max could be 13(+3) and all start at 9(-1).

10 costs 1
11 costs 2
12 costs 3
13 costs 6

you get 13 pts to spend.

that way ability score can be its defense value or DC to beat.

And all spells can have attacks. like in 4E.

you attack charisma with banisment. roll your attack. at 7th level usually it would be +3 proficiency bonus and +4 from casting stat. So +7 vs DC of lets say 11(charisma 11) or 14 if they have proficiency in charisma defense.

 

[Li Shenron]

Now, if defenses were Proficiency bonus + Ability score

What if instead defenses were JUST ability scores, but without the Proficiency bonus?

- they would still be max 20
- they would still increase by level

But it would be simpler.

 

[MechaPilot]

I already use Stats as defenses of sorts. Instead of rolling for attribute contests, I just use a monster's stats. If you want to grapple a creature who has no athletics prof, you just need to beat their Str score, not their roll.

I also allow characters to use their stats when performing uncontested actions. Do you want to break down that DC 13 door? What? You have a 15 Str? You just do it. Don't bother rolling.

 

[CapnZapp]

Stats as defended, wasn't that the idea behind the 3.0 Psion?

Back then it didn't work out, but I'd love to see WotC being ambitious about 5E psionics, and not settling for not-spells that use not-spell-points...

 

[TallIan]

It certainly sounds like an interesting idea.

But I think where it'll start to creak is with monsters that are kind of one dimensional, eg low intelligence beasts or slow lumbering hulks.

If you attack a beast that should be tough with INT based attacks it'll be too easy.

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[Cap'n Kobold]

Are these just for saves? Would you still be using AC vs normal attacks?

 

[Xeviat]

Are these just for saves? Would you still be using AC vs normal attacks?

AC could be Dex or Armor?


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[FormerlyHemlock]

An early version of the Unearthed Arcana Mystic did this: make Intelligence your effective AC against certain mental attacks (Mind Blast?). I wouldn't use it the way you're using it, but the Linguist feat certainly is an interesting precedent. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Xeviat]

An early version of the Unearthed Arcana Mystic did this: make Intelligence your effective AC against certain mental attacks (Mind Blast?). I wouldn't use it the way you're using it, but the Linguist feat certainly is an interesting precedent. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I'm not even at the considering stage yet. More about thinking about the idea of entertaining the consideration stage. Mostly, it was an interesting idea.


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