Quintessential Rogue

[tsadkiel]

You choose the new class abilities you want to add, each of which has a point value. You then must remove class abilities, like sneak attack, that sum to the total points of abilities you bought.

My favorite wrinkle in the system is that you MUST drop the most expensive rogue class feature based on the points you spent on abilities. Thus, if you load up on free feats and abilities, you have to drop the rogue's skill points and sneak attack.

Okay, now I'm really interested. Do you mind giving an example of what sort of abilities rogues can pick up with this system?

 

[Nightfall]

Well Mike...

Looks like you're doing again..making me give you all my money! Hope you're happy!

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm mildly worried when you treat feats and prestige classes as a given by saying that "of course" you have some. It makes me wonder that you might not give them as much effort as you could.

But I'll wait and see.

 

[mearls]

Okay, now I'm really interested. Do you mind giving an example of what sort of abilities rogues can pick up with this system?

You can customize your class skill list, add more proficiencies, pick up a few feats, and select certain class abilities, like bardic knowledge, and gain competence bonuses with certain skills.

In return, you can drop your total skill points, sneak attack ability, your x4 1st level, and a few other things.

It's a nifty little system, and I think it'll open things up for people.

- Mearls

 

[mearls]

I'm mildly worried when you treat feats and prestige classes as a given by saying that "of course" you have some. It makes me wonder that you might not give them as much effort as you could.

But I'll wait and see.

I'm worried that you're reading a bit too much into my post.

If I fail at any game design endeavor, it will never be for a lack of effort.

- Mearls

 

[d20Dwarf]

Mike,

Can I use the thieves' guild template to create my gladiatorial slave camp? My character is building one right now and has 6 months invested, but the DM and I have been waiting for some decent rules to come out. I want to know how much money and flesh I own!

 

[Kichwas]

Thieve's Guilds, Traps, Poisons?

So why should I get this if I already have Traps and Treachery and SOng and Silence?


The reasons where obvious for Quitessential FIghter...

But this book from the above sounds like a repeat of what's already on the shelves.

Or is it?

I've a very high opinion of what I've bought from Mongoose so far. But you folks make it sound like they're third in line for the same ideas on this one.

 

[Kichwas]

You choose the new class abilities you want to add, each of which has a point value. You then must remove class abilities, like sneak attack, that sum to the total points of abilities you bought.

My favorite wrinkle in the system is that you MUST drop the most expensive rogue class feature based on the points you spent on abilities. Thus, if you load up on free feats and abilities, you have to drop the rogue's skill points and sneak attack.

I see three potential problems here:

1. GURPS is infamous for it's ability to be abused.
2. This sounds like a different system than that in Quintessential Fighter. Which makes me worry that the Sollector Series will not have much of a line unity to it.
3. The restriction you've set sounds like it could cause problems in customizability.

Are my concerns unfounded?

 

[zorlag]

zorlag

It's true that there is two books about rogues already: S&S and T&T...

However, both of these were dissapointing in one way or the other:

Song and Silence has pretty good selection of feats (meaning that there is something useful), mediocore prestige classes (Only ones that I have some use for are Spymaster, Thief-acrobat and Virtuoso), poor equipment section (A lot of about instruments, too much IMO and only few interesting items), quite a lot of playing tips (for rogues especially) and some spells, most of them so-so (like Fanfare no-save stunning anyone?). Oh and lets not forget garrotte rules, which are good with one exception (Locking garotte is kinda, ya know, 'broken')

Traps and Treachery has poor selection of prestige classes (mechanically broken, ideas are actually better than in the S&S), lackluster feat selection (only 2 or 3 actually useful, couple are broken <Improved Sneak Attack, Quickstrike>), nice equipment section (that miniature golem is hilarious!) and good bit of info on poisons (better that S&S) and of course a lot of traps (some very good ideas) and premade puzzles (useful in a pinch, I'm sure).

I have both books and I still feel that even now I could use more QUALITY material on the subject. However, I have enough information how to build thieves guild, unless Mongoose comes up with detailed costs of operating such guild...New feats would be very nice, ones that are useful (not those +2 to two skills, I already have modified skill focus to give +2 to 2 skills or +3 to one, whichever the player desires). Some spells for assassin would be nice as well (both SS and TT had some, but not enough).
Oh and better prestige classes, both of the aforementioned books are quite awful in that respect. And much more new alchemy items (I'm a fan of alchemists fire )

Z.

 

[Zarrock God of Evil]

Also - don't forget that the Canting Crew will probably be THE guide to creating a criminal environment in 3E and it'll feature a few new prestige classes as well. I think I'll make that one my first purchase from Troll Lord Games...

-Zarrock