R&R Endeavors in Dragon

[IgamethereforIam]

Hello,

Does anyone know anything about R&R Endeavors publishing company? Their ad in this months Dragon says they're looking for novels to publish, but I'm worried they may be a vanity or print-on-demand press. Any info about them would be great.

Mike

 

[haiiro]

They have a website: http://www.writerpublishing.com/. It doesn't sound like a vanity press, but it's a bit hard to tell for certain.

Edit: The other link listed on Google when you search for "r&r publishing" is this one, a short news article about the company: http://www.internetnewsbureau.com/archives/2003/apr03/writers.html.

 

[IgamethereforIam]

Yep, I've looked at their website and saw their press release, but there's no info on them that I can find that didn't come directly from them. Info like what books they've published, who've they've don't business with, who the editor is, where they came from, in what ways are they are/aren't a traditional publisher . . . and they're not discussed on the usual sites that rate publishers for the legitamacy (sites like Preditors and Editors).

Anyway, I've email Dragon about it to see if they can tell me anything.

-Mike

 

[afreed]

Straight from the site: 'Your book may be printed and supplied with a soft laminated cover for a fee, with a minimum number required...'
In other words, yes, they're a vanity press at best, a scam at worst. Don't even consider dealing with them.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Straight from the site: 'Your book may be printed and supplied with a soft laminated cover for a fee, with a minimum number required...'
In other words, yes, they're a vanity press at best, a scam at worst. Don't even consider dealing with them.

Where on the site did you find that? I've been communicating with them via e-mail, and I asked them straight out if there were any fees involved, and was told no. They're not a vanity press. I've been throught their site thoroughly, and I can't find that quote you mention anywhere. Can you point me to exactly where you found it?

They're also a relatively new company, which is why they don't have a track record.

I'm paranoid about vanity presses myself. But I've looked into this, and it looks legit. Believe me, if I'm wrong, I want to know, so please point me directly to the source of your info. Thanks.

Edited to add: And I really don't think they'd lie to me flat-out about whether there are fees involved. First, e-mails can be saved. Second, if they were to lie, it would only hold until I looked at the contract. Submitting something isn't binding, and I think they know that anyone who asks ahead of time whether the company is a vanity press or not would be gone faster than Superman with the runs if their contract implied otherwise. So leaving aside the issue of honesty in general, it just wouldn't pay to lie in this instance.

 

[Gez]

They have a website: http://www.writerpublishing.com/.

Eeek!

 

[Mouseferatu]

lol

You can skip the Flash intro, you know.

 

[Gez]

Yeah, but then, there's flash loading again. Just to navigate.

A good website should be browsable by Lynx!

 

[IgamethereforIam]

They've since told me they pay 25% on net sales (not gross), and that they make they're books available for order at thousands of stores, though they don't mean to imply that they sell directly to those stores.

So far, they've been up front about what they do with me, but so far it's not sounding like a good deal. Payment on net sales can yield very little, and if they don't have a visible presence in brink-n-mortar stores, then no one's gonna buy any given book except friends and relatives.

They told me they're not "print-on-demand or anything of that nature," but it doesn't sound like they're *that* far from it. This is just my impression though. I could be wrong.

M.

edit: A word about fees. There are 'author mills' that don't charge anything, but they're not good deals because they expect to make money by having any given author's friends and relatives by copies of their books. These places don't expect any author to sell much; they make their money by having many many authors selling little. Authors at these places rarely make much money doing this and it is a form of vanity press since the outside public doesn't care about these books. (Not saying that R&R does this; I just don't know.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, after thinking for a while about this, I've decided to go ahead and repost something I was told in an e-mail exchange with R&R. I don't think they'd mind, under the circumstances.

Concerning distribution, all R&R authors/publications enjoy international distribution via online (Amazon) and traditional brick-and-mortar bookstores. Approximately 10-12,000 stores. We enjoy full marketing capabilities through a retained and reputable New York advertising agency. Our distributors employ a full sales representative staff to get your books further into the stores.

That sounds to me like a real (albeit not huge) publisher. No, it's not as wide a distribution as, say, Tor or Del Rey, but since it's pretty much impossible for a brand new author to be published through Tor or Del Rey, I'd say it's still a good bet.

I don't want people to get the wrong impression. I don't mean to sound like I'm shilling for R&R. I just know that I've been through this process before, and this looks, at least so far, like the real thing. I'm not signed with them or anything, and it's possible they may not even like the manuscripts I've submitted. But it doesn't sound like a scam to me.

So far as 25% on net, that doesn't sound any different than most book publishers. Almost all of them pay royalties/a percentage of profits (though I don't know if the 25% figure is standard or not). The only difference is whether or not there's an advance offered.

Also remember that most publishing contracts have a limited lifespan. If a company like R&R does publish a book, you always have the right to try to sell it to a larger publisher later on.