R&R Endeavors in Dragon

[IgamethereforIam]

They sent me the same quote. As I mentioned earlier, when I asked, they told me that there just making their books available to all those stores to buy. I don't see any indication that your (or my) book will actually appear in those stores. Also, he still hasn't given me any contact info beyond email, even though I inquired about it. I'm hoping that'll be cleared up in the future.

The 25% on net is not standard for traditional publisher like Tor and Del Ray and such. They go on retail list price, and from what I remember it's around 6-8% (and up to much higher for hardbacks and if you sell a certain number). The later is actually a much better deal, since net is often vaguely defined and can be severly cut by discounts offerered to bookstores.

Ask R&R if you can see the contract (I did). I'm not too sure what to make of its out-of-print clause. It's been a problem with many authors (especially those dealing with print-on-demand and e-book type places) getting a company to define when a book goes out of print, and thus, they never have a chance to sell it to some other company.

Anyway, I just got the contract and am still looking it over (I haven't sent them my manuscript yet even; only the first 2 chaps).

Edit: here's an interesting link about contracts:

http://www.authorsguild.org/?p=101

 

[Mouseferatu]

The 25% on net is not standard for traditional publisher like Tor and Del Ray and such. They go on retail list price, and from what I remember it's around 6-8% (and up to much higher for hardbacks and if you sell a certain number). The later is actually a much better deal, since net is often vaguely defined and can be severly cut by discounts offerered to bookstores.

True. And I've no doubt that a new company won't be able to offer as good a deal as Del Rey. So I guess the question is, is 25% of net a good enough deal for a new author who can't break in to the established publishers. And I honestly don't know the answer. If they offered me a contract under those terms, I have to admit I'd seriously consider it (if the rest of the contract was acceptable), just because it's still better than no contract at all, and--my RPG-writing career aside--I really want to publish novels as well.

(Quick plug: I do have a Vampire novel coming up, but I want to publish outside the aegis of RPG-related stuff. )

I've taken your advice, though, and asked to see a contract. (I wouldn't have signed without reading it, of course, but you're right that seeing it in advance is a wise idea.) I'll look over the out-of-print clause and let you know what I think.

Also, I asked him flat out if the books would actually be on shelves, or if they'd only go to the stores if someone requested them. Again, I'll let you know what they say.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Okay, the following is from R&R in answer to my question about whether or not books will be on shelves. And yeah, I got permission to post this.

When we distribute a novel that means basically that the book will be available for order from our distributor. Our distributor has a whole fleet of sales reps that sell to bookstores monthly and depending on their salesmanship, orders are placed from bookstores to put on shelves. Sounds nice, huh? Lots of sales and all that. But with R&R, that's just not enough. That's why we retain a large and reputable ad agency out of New York City to direct advertise titles to stores. That direct advertising includes many possibilities that include but are not limited to, large press releases, Internet Advertising, posters/display techniques for stores themselves. We also negotiate to get books on the front shelves, as soon as customers walk in they see the title on display. These combined efforts equal more orders from bookstores but ultimately more books sold to customers, which is what you want.

Now, from my (admittedly limited) understanding, that's the way most of them work. The distributors make the books available, and then try to convince the bookstores to order them. The fact that R&R has an ad agency working for them as well as their distributor, to me, sounds like a good sign.

If someone who knows more than I do wants to correct my interpretation, please do, but this really looks like the real deal to me.

 

[afreed]

Where on the site did you find that? I've been communicating with them via e-mail, and I asked them straight out if there were any fees involved, and was told no

Right here:

http://www.writerpublishing.com/dragons_scifi_horror/publishing.htm

Oddly, I could only get there through Lynx at first (the Flash page seems to link to different places). Nonetheless, it's there. Maybe it's from an older version of the site, and they've changed their policies since.

About getting 25% of net sales, with no advance...that seems worrysome too. To me, it implies that they have no faith that their products will sell.

I don't mean to be relentlessly negative. I just get bad vibes from these guys.

 

[IgamethereforIam]

Eep! I didn't see the non-flash site before. That contradicts what I've been told through email, so I don't know if their policies have changed or what.

In any case, I've decided to hold off going with them. That may be a wrong choice, who knows? There are just a few too many things I'm not happy with. If anyone does decided to sign with them, I'd be most interested in hearing how things go (especially if they get an advance).

Oh yes, before you sign, make sure this part of the contract is a typo:

"The Publisher shall, within one year after the Author has delivered a complete and satisfactory manuscript as provided in Paragraph 4, publish the work at its own expense and in such style and manner, including but necessarily limited to e-book format, and at such price as it deems suitable. "

It would seem that that should be "NOT necissarily." I hope that the "not" was left out inadvertently.

M.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Right here:

http://www.writerpublishing.com/dragons_scifi_horror/publishing.htm

Oddly, I could only get there through Lynx at first (the Flash page seems to link to different places). Nonetheless, it's there. Maybe it's from an older version of the site, and they've changed their policies since.

About getting 25% of net sales, with no advance...that seems worrysome too. To me, it implies that they have no faith that their products will sell.

I don't mean to be relentlessly negative. I just get bad vibes from these guys.

Huh. They do seem to have changed their policies, since both their flash page and their e-mails with me contradict that material. As I said, I've been told in so many words that they're not a vanity press, and I explained above why I don't believe they'd have anything to gain by lying about that.

Now, I do agree that I'm not entirely sanguine about the notion of 25% of net with no advance. That said, I haven't seen the contract yet, so I don't know the details on that arrangement. I've seen enough, however, and spoken to them enough, that I'm not prepared to write them off. I'm willing to go so far as submitting materials (in fact, I've already done so). If they like what they see, and if we reach the point of looking over contracts, I'll decide at the time--based on their answers to questions on matters such as this--whether I wish to go ahead with it.

Believe me, just like you don't mean to be relentlessly negative, I don't mean to sound unbearably optimistic. I have no intention of signing a contract that I haven't fully read, questioned, and understood. I just don't see any reason not to at least see if I can get to that point.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Oh yes, before you sign, make sure this part of the contract is a typo:

"The Publisher shall, within one year after the Author has delivered a complete and satisfactory manuscript as provided in Paragraph 4, publish the work at its own expense and in such style and manner, including but necessarily limited to e-book format, and at such price as it deems suitable. "

It would seem that that should be "NOT necissarily." I hope that the "not" was left out inadvertently.

M.

Oh believe me, I'd definitely make sure that was a typo.

I'm also going to make damn sure that any contract I sign is not limited to e-books. No offense to e-book publishers, but that's not what I'm going for.

As I said above, I'm willing to pursue this at least to the point of looking at contracts, if they like my work enough to go that far. I'll let you all know how it looks--and again, rest assured that I have no intention of being foolishly trusting about this.

 

[IgamethereforIam]

One other observation. Their non-flash site says:

"We have been publishing fantasy books for struggling authors, and giving them the support and method they need to get their work seen"

But I can't seem to find any books by that company listed on Amazon (and a few other places I tried). Maybe I'm missing them. Can anyone find any?

M.