Daggerheart General Thread [+]

Here is a fun question:

What media (other RPG, video game, movie, cartoon, novel, comic) setting do you think would make a great Daggerheart Campaign Frame? How would you implement it?
I think a medieval fantasy version of My Hero Academia would be neat.

Perhaps there is a larger, adventurers guild kind of organization that spans across multiple countries or continents. The party first has to become accredited guild members and then they go off on adventures solving all sorts of issues. Perhaps the meta plot being that the guilds very leadership is trying to topple whole countries to their benefit.
 

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Detective style mystery drama. The sort where you investigate a scene and interview witnesses and suspects finding a lot of clues and putting the puzzle together through a mix of said clues and social interactions.

The narrative focus where players are expected to fill in scenes, explain what happens with a success or fail, and so on - these all seem like great ways to build that kind of story 'on the fly'.
I was asking more about a specific setting (Star Wars, God of War, whatever) folks thought would make a good campaign frame.
 

I think a medieval fantasy version of My Hero Academia would be neat.

Perhaps there is a larger, adventurers guild kind of organization that spans across multiple countries or continents. The party first has to become accredited guild members and then they go off on adventures solving all sorts of issues. Perhaps the meta plot being that the guilds very leadership is trying to topple whole countries to their benefit.
Having to become an accredited adventurer by an organisation which manages the guilds is a subplot in a number of anime/manga, I should note, and the "organisation - sometimes itself a guild - that manages the adventuring guilds has its own agenda" thing comes up from time to time as well, notably in Solo Levelling S2. It's definitely a concept that could work.

They credit the game and designer who originated the specific PBTA Agenda and Principles ethos, they take nothing from DW.

The credits and “inspired by” portion is remarkably detailed and helps point people towards other games if they really find some element engaging.
I feel like this is a "technically correct, the best kind of correct" sort of answer, when I do think there's maybe a bit more nuance here.

Like, people involved with DH's design have experience with Dungeon World (including Matt Mercer specifically, though I note Spenser Starke is listed as lead designer), and I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, DH was strikingly reminiscent of Dungeon World, particularly in the places it chose to essentially hybridize PtbA with a crunchier, more D&D-like system.

Obviously that is possible to explain as convergent evolution, but there's at least one and I suspect more phrases which appear to me (possibly due to my limited knowledge!) to be lifted from Dungeon World specifically, not from Blades in the Dark, and not from Apocalypse World.

For example, this particular phrase:

"Reveal an unwelcome truth" - this appears on p. 152 of Daggerheart, twice, as an example DM move, and in the example GM moves sheet at the end.

This appears in my PDF of Dungeon World on p. 165, again, as an example DM move. And once more, at least in my copy of Apocalypse World, that phrase doesn't appear nor does anything close to it. Nor does it appear in my Blades in the Dark PDF.

That's just one specific phrase but it's such an odd and memorable phrase that it kind of slapped me in the face as being Dungeon World-specific. Certainly I'd never see it before that. Now again, I am open to being better informed here - if DW didn't come up with this phrase, I'd be delighted to know where it came from originally, presumably some other more-overlooked PtbA game.

Combine stuff like that with the fact that DH is, to me, incredibly reminiscent in terms of how it approaches things to DW, except better, smarter, more thought-through and tonally like modern D&D, rather than weirdly tonally trying to emulate early D&D (as DW was, despite having rather modern takes on the classes and their abilities), and I think it's pretty fair to say DW may have had some - perhaps small - influence.

Now, let me be clear - I'm not accusing anyone of anything! I don't think anyone is lying! The most obvious scenario here is simply that this phrase and probably other DW influences got in without being consciously inspired by DW, but I also don't think just cutting things off and saying DW definitely wasn't an influence is quite correct either.
 

I was actually impressed by that as I've never seen any tRPG ever credit another for any inspiration or even set of ideas taking whole cloth from another game outside of just having a license on the back page.

Maybe that's a new trend, it wasn't a thing back when I was around 20+ years ago, and I've only been in Pathfinder since returning. Not being used to it, to me it felt more like an unusual allocation of page space.
I'm genuinely sorry to be Mr Ackshully (again? ugh double sorry if it was you before as well) buuuuut my weirdly-good memory for useless nonsense informs me that it absolutely was a thing 20+ years ago (to a similar degree it is now), and even told me where to look for an example - 1992's Vampire: The Masquerade 2nd edition:

1748632488618.png


So for example, probably VtM/WoD did get dice pools from Shadowrun, as they specifically list it as an influence and I believe it's the only one there that uses them.

Now what I must say is it's never been like, very common, and frankly it still isn't. Daggerheart is remarkable in that not only does it list RPGs which influenced it, but it also calls them out in some more detail. Which RPGs have done before, but usually that only happened in DM's guide-type supplements, if at all.

(Also good god the 1990s-ness of that list, a window into another world! I love the "of course" on Vaclav Havel, only in the 1990s baayyybeeeee!)
 

I'm genuinely sorry to be Mr Ackshully (again? ugh double sorry if it was you before as well) buuuuut my weirdly-good memory for useless nonsense informs me that it absolutely was a thing 20+ years ago (to a similar degree it is now), and even told me where to look for an example - 1992's Vampire: The Masquerade 2nd edition:

View attachment 407133



(Also good god the 1990s-ness of that list, a window into another world! I love the "of course" on Vaclav Havel, only in the 1990s baayyybeeeee!)
And Highlander(but not 2). This was so common back then. Highlander is great. Love that film. But not the second one. Please, for the love of God, don't think I enjoy the sequel! But, you know, fair. 😂
 

Like, people involved with DH's design have experience with Dungeon World (including Matt Mercer specifically, though I note Spenser Starke is listed as lead designer), and I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, DH was strikingly reminiscent of Dungeon World, particularly in the places it chose to essentially hybridize PtbA with a crunchier, more D&D-like system.

While they do point out the list of games that serve as an inspiration is not 100%, Masks&City of Mist are called out in there as well. The latter in particular is a more "modern" take on some sort of heroic fantasy by way of PBTA and has some "story intrusion" mechanics. I can't speak to exact GM moves origins in their head, but crediting AW as the core of their narrative design makes far more sense than a successor game that didn't originate the actual philosophy.

If anything, DH is more competing in the same realm as DW2 (which is a pretty big break from DW in so many ways) - taking the idea of CR style "epic heroic fantasy narrative" gaming and bringing in a lot of engine design that facilitates it. I do think DH's stats are more elegant so far, and I'm looking forward to using it as the sort of bridge game that lets me as the GM do min-prep max-exciting story moments, but lets players occasionally chill out with the need to optimize fictional positioning in combat moments in favor of color + mechanics.

Considering how much I enjoyed playing Story Now 4e in a conceptual sense, but didn't enjoy the amount of bookkeeping minor adjustments in combat along with a real hard-core emphasis on positions and such, I think this will scratch that itch well.

Edit: and there's something to be said for the CR name simply having pull and getting 5e players who came in via the CR / BG3 combo to be open to trying something new off that cachet alone.
 

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