Daggerheart General Thread [+]

[BruceWright]

Indeed, Elvish Lore. I find the people I'm introducing to Daggerheart have a curiosity for why and how it might be different from games they've played before.

And maybe it's a mindset thing, but in a tactical game it pays to be risk-avoidant. But in a storytelling game, it pays to be messy-- that's where the interesting stories are. Making the sub-optimal choices because your Rogue is a messy-little B who has overconfidence issues and never met a magic item they didn't want to poke at.

And there's definitely a push-pull there for a hybrid tactical/story game like DH (or D&D for that matter).

And I think that people who gravitate towards that kind of play will enjoy Daggerheart because it GENERATES flavor with each roll.

I think the kind of attitude to cultivate in DH is to win if you can, lose if you must, but either way, tell the juiciest, most gripping, most hair-raising story possible.

 

[overgeeked]

Indeed, Elvish Lore. I find the people I'm introducing to Daggerheart have a curiosity for why and how it might be different from games they've played before.

And maybe it's a mindset thing, but in a tactical game it pays to be risk-avoidant. But in a storytelling game, it pays to be messy-- that's where the interesting stories are. Making the sub-optimal choices because your Rogue is a messy-little B who has overconfidence issues and never met a magic item they didn't want to poke at.

And there's definitely a push-pull there for a hybrid tactical/story game like DH (or D&D for that matter).

And I think that people who gravitate towards that kind of play will enjoy Daggerheart because it GENERATES flavor with each roll.

I think the kind of attitude to cultivate in DH is to win if you can, lose if you must, but either way, tell the juiciest, most gripping, most hair-raising story possible.

That's a great way to put it. I think my playtest suffered because the players mostly had the D&D 5E power-gamer, tactical-play mindset despite some of them being Critters and OC fans. Not sure how to get people to engage with the game as it is rather than how they think it should be. In my experience, most OC players will do everything they can to protect and guard and prevent their OC from being hurt, harmed, messed with, etc. They basically avoid the very thing they should be seeking out in your description. I'm not sure how to square that circle.

 

[Imaro]

That's a great way to put it. I think my playtest suffered because the players mostly had the D&D 5E power-gamer, tactical-play mindset despite some of them being Critters and OC fans. Not sure how to get people to engage with the game as it is rather than how they think it should be. In my experience, most OC players will do everything they can to protect and guard and prevent their OC from being hurt, harmed, messed with, etc. They basically avoid the very thing they should be seeking out in your description. I'm not sure how to square that circle.

If this is how the game should be played... then the question is how does it reward or incentivize that type of play... I'm not sure DH really does (though I'd love to hear what others think) and thus it ends up getting played like 5e with narrative bells and whistles.

 

[zakael19]

So one player got in a car accident (rear ended at a red light), making it a session 1 with 3. Opened pretty soft, doing some scene setting around town for people to get into character and know each other before rolling into a background/reasons for being here threaded "town council" meeting. Some back and forth (and players taking a truly absurd amount of jotted notes, all 3 of them!) and chatter and investigation and we scene cut to the next morning with a caravan rolling out of town, along the road where plenty of ambushes have been taking place and the party contracted by the council to see if they can find the source.

Stuff happened, they get into position and head off bandit scouts, Ranger does some butchery (exceeding the severe threshold vs 3hp adversaries with each attack? yeah, blender), Sorcerer follows it up after I take a couple of "hold them off shots" at range (people readily spending currencies to cut down on hits/help rolls) and crits + blasts the rear guard.

Party has a conversation, Paladin (seraph) admonishes the Ranger for slaughter. They elect to pursue into the trees. Rolls great on the tracking, sees evidence of the fleeing figures just setting in to an ambush. Paladin takes the moment to step out & try to parlay - immediate Golden Opportunity for a couple arrows. He persists. They listen out of bewilderment, and he makes an impassioned plea (using a really appropriate Experience). Success w/hope - they're willing to surrender so long as "he can protect them from The Master." He promises that the power of St. Camwyn will.

Sorcerer looks around to see if she can sense anybody hiding (failure w/fear) and gets a tinge of a presence in the shape of a crow flapping away - clearly something marked them and their parlay. We call it a night with them escorting the prisoners back to town through pouring rain to face the Baron's justice, and perhaps find out more about this Him that they all fear.

I'm still feeling my way into this game + table vs FITD and my existing groups. Everybody was really good at calling out Fear and ensuring I was taking it (lol), I was clear when I spent it to make a situation worse, and they all seemed to have a great time. I think we had a really good mix of roll chance, I told them I'd run Instinct + Knowledge rolls the same way I do in a PBTA - with a list of actionable questions+ answers like you see in some of the Environments (but on a Failure with Fear you won't like how/what you find out). They really got into the swing of that once we got into the field, despite it being what fed me a decent bit of fear.

I'm still getting used to not just teeing up a move and asking "what do you do" but taking active actions, lol.

It felt like a really low-effort to run blend of 5e and a less-harsh PBTA, I liked it. And the novelty of playing in person, wow.

 

[BruceWright]

If this is how the game should be played... then the question is how does it reward or incentivize that type of play... I'm not sure DH really does (though I'd love to hear what others think) and thus it ends up getting played like 5e with narrative bells and whistles.

There’s a lot of advice within the rulebook of different ways to pursue interconnected character arcs. The character creation and session zero instructions direct some of this, and large parts of the book instruct GMs on how to use this to construct A, B, and C-plot lines that interweave characters and their backstories with each other and the larger threat facing the world.

One way the core mechanics support this sort of play is the Death Move “Avoid Death”. If a player chooses, when their character is downed to zero hit points, they can, for narrative reasons, just not die. There is a risk of a “scar” and that scar mechanic might even add MORE narrative interest and ability to a character, depending on the campaign frame. This encourages risky, non-optimal play.

Another mechanic is “Experiences”. Experiences are like Feats, but they’re not tied to class, they’re written by the player, and they change as the character goes through life learning and experiencing the story arc. They allow the story to shape the actual mechanics of the character, AND THEN they reward and incentivize play WITHIN that learning and growth. So if you have an experience you wrote called “Ooooh, Shiny!” It gives you that bonus to pick and poke and pocket valuables that you can’t resist. If you go on an adventure with pirates, you might add the experience “Pirate” and that can now be part of your growing, changing identity.

Another example is the extensive section in the book about how to play a character with a disability with respect. There are sections on playing blind/visually impaired characters, Deaf characters, characters with other physical differences and how to adjust the game to portray a world where mobility aids can be mechanical or magical. There’s also some great reminders that disability is just as much an identity as it is a state of being.

All across this game are reminders, examples and support for play that is about stories and not just maximizing your build.

 

[zakael19]

All across this game are reminders, examples and support for play that is about stories and not just maximizing your build.

Already in one short session the players tonight were talking about how their experiences + the lite world details id constructed with them were firming up and the collisions between their characters were opening avenues to change and grow.

Also as part of the admin work before we jumped in I asked each player to define a unique question for their character to ask as part of the “seek insight” type stuff - so we know that the Sorcerer’s earth magic means they can tap into the resonance of the ground around them; the Ranger (Orc reaver, worshipper of the storm lord) can sniff the secrets on the wind; and the Paladin chose a classic sense evil type thing.