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D&D 5E Race Class combo, together, defines a character ‘type’

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
I wouldn't stop my players using it but I think it would be far more interesting to use it to create cultures such as Halruan (or any magical utopian race): +1 dex/int, arcana skill, magic initiate (wizard).

Human Culture Feat

You can create new Human feats to describe each Human culture. This feat grants whatever mechanical trait the members of a particular culture are likely to have. It also narratively describes how and why the trait functions as a cultural value. Additionally, the Human Culture Feat notes which two abilities and which skill are typical for the culture. Then use the Human feat, ability improvements, and skill to fill out the cultural traits.

Humans are social, but also individualistic. So it is ok for the player to use the feat description as guideline for the culture, while diverging from it, to pick a different ability or skill, or even a different feat. But now the divergent choices have a context of what these divergences might mean within the larger framework of the culture.

If the feat accurately describes more than 60% of the culture, then that is a significant majority that generally controls the group decisions. If the feat describes more than 90%, then it is a defining majority, that decides the fundamental assumptions that everyone takes for granted as true. Conversely for minority cultures, if more than 10%, it is an influential minority, that can shape trends and eras, and if more than 40% it is a significant minority that cannot be ignored.

Maybe start with three main conflictive cultures within the setting, and create a feat for each. Create more feats if the need arises.

The ability to use the Human feat to define a culture, is an other reason why the Feat Human is such an excellent design to represent the flavor of the Human race. The feat can represent groups, as well as can represent unique individuals.
 
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Satyrn

First Post
No, but its more along the lines of the base dwarf abilities as well as the mountain and hill dwarf bonuses don't resonate with alchemist at all. Even the tool proficiency is denied, as Alchemist's tools don't benefit from the expertise. Its a complete mismatch. Fighty dwarf and hardy dwarf are alright, but I want to see more crafty dwarves.

This entire thread is a nod to the fact that people play race-class combinations that resonate with each other, and I'm just saying I'm interested in seeing a dwarf that has abilities that resonate with the alchemist. I'm just saying that would just be nice to see.

I want to jokingly point out that the dwarven subrace you want is in the Player's Handbook: the rock gnome.


But I totally think a dwarven subrace like you want wou,d be an excellent addition to the game - to the point where I know miss its presence in the PH.
 

I want to jokingly point out that the dwarven subrace you want is in the Player's Handbook: the rock gnome.

But I totally think a dwarven subrace like you want wou,d be an excellent addition to the game - to the point where I know miss its presence in the PH.
Oh, I totally get the whole rock gnome thing too. I thought that more than once myself. But... then I look between the high elf and the forest gnome and think, "well, if they get to do it..."

Maybe even go down a different route than expected. Make it +Dex and give advantage to using tool rolls once a short/long rest for the abilities? That way, we can even have some dwarven locksmiths as well...
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
I want to jokingly point out that the dwarven subrace you want is in the Player's Handbook: the rock gnome.

But I totally think a dwarven subrace like you want would be an excellent addition to the game - to the point where I know miss its presence in the PH.

Heh, I was thinking similar.

If you have a Human-size Dwarf, using Rock Gnome stats, for alchemy and magic item creation, ... then you basically have the Norse Dwarf (Dvergr).

Something like: +2 Intelligence − the ‘cunning of the dwarves’ meaning magical technological expertise, plus +1 (or more) Strength. They can lift and hold extremely heavy weight.

Typically, the Norse Dwarf has pathetic Charisma. They prefer to live a dormant lifestyle, standing cold and dark inside stone, and often are only motivated into action by envy, greed, competitiveness, and revenge. They are responsible for all of the most powerful magic items, and all kinds of Human technologies too, if I remember correctly, even boat making. Heh. Even tho these Dwarves are extremely powerful, often more powerful than other nature spirits, no one seems able to take them seriously.

This kind of Dwarf is as tall as a Human, maybe slightly bigger than a Human. Viking Age carvings illustrate them as about the same size. They can be mistaken for Human, but have sunless, deathly pale skin. The idea of a short Dwarf comes later from foreign influence, from German (and Anglo-Saxon) literature, especially stories about a specific famously short German Dwarf named Alberich (whence Icelandic Alfrikr, French Oberon, etcetera).

The Norse Dwarf is Neutral, neither especially lawful nor chaotic. Probably, not necessarily evil. Self preservation is the main ethic, but otherwise they ignore Nondwarves, if possible.

Oh, and they petrify in direct sunlight! (Heh, and one might think Drow have troubles.) But this kind of Dwarf usually casts spells of magical mists and fogs to protect themselves if venturing out into broad daylight. Sometimes called the ‘children of the mist’. Many human-looking stone formations are indeed once a Dwarf who got careless. They call the sun the ‘game of Dvalinn’, the ancestor of all of the Dwarves. A Dwarf reaching 0 hit points, petrifies. Probably the Dwarf is vulnerable to radiant damage, and direct sunlight counts as radiant damage. As one might guess, they are normally nocturnal.

Actually, the Norwegian name Svirfneblin probably contracts the Old Norse name, Svartalfneblinn (Svart’lfneblinn), meaning, ‘The Black Elf Mist’, and a nickname for this kind of Dwarf in daylight. ‘Elf’ in the sense of a source of good luck (sort of like ‘angel’), ‘Black’ in the sense of deadly, cruel, and dangerous. Also, the Dwarf is known for the characteristic black hair that contrasts the pale skin.

They live inside stone. Probably this is best understood as an extradimensional demiplane, being the size and shape of the stone, and contiguous with both the Materia and the Feywild planes. Aside from this shape and contiguity, it is alot like the Demiplane spell. There is even a story, of one Dwarf trapping a Human inside one stone, similar to this spell.

And they make items and magic items, and all kinds of technologies, including elemental alchemy: Frost-Fire-Wind, combining as primordial white muck, becoming stone, and eventually refining as pure gold.

Given D&D the way it is, this kind of Dwarf might work as a muscular Human-size ‘Gnome’ with +2 Intelligence and +1 (or more) Strength. Too bad the name Svirfneblin is already taken, but it isnt too different from this. An update might still be possible?

One could argue the Dwarf and the Gnome are the same race, one inhabiting the Material plane and the other inhabiting the Feywild plane, similar to Elf and ‘Eladrin’ Fey Elf. Svirfneblin can be ancestral to both Dwarf and Gnome. In the context of D&D, they might even both be native to the earthy Material plane, with the Gnome immigrating from the Material into the Feywild.
 
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Celebrim

Legend
I don't think the data reveals enough to make that degree of firm assessment about what it means.

In particular, the players making the selections do not have a single traceable motive, so it could be true - and I would say very likely is true - that different character types are chosen for different reasons.

Or to put it another way, you don't know whether elf wizards are being chosen because the type "elf wizard" is what the player wants to play, or whether elf wizard are being chosen because the game rules make them mechanically optimally and thereby encouraging the type on to the player if they want to play a wizard or an elf in isolation. That is to say, I could want to explore what it means to be an elf, and have no attachment specifically to the class - only that I wanted to play an effective character. Or I could want to be a wizard, and have no attachment to the idea of being an elf - only that I wanted to be the most effective wizard I could make. Or there could be other things influencing the motivation, such as not caring particularly about the character I made, but believing that someone needs to be the wizard (or the cleric, or the rogue) because that's how parties are 'supposed' to be composited and Joe always plays the fighter.
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
Most frequently, players select a specific race-class combo as a specific type of character. The reason for a particular combination can include flavor, mechanics, the mechanics viewed as a kind of flavor (strong, smart, charming, etcetera), D&D tradition, pop culture inspiration, and so on.



Certain players (heh, mostly character optimizers) prefer to decouple race from class, and describe freeform race mechanics as their ideal design.

Yet all this describes is the Human race design. Pick whatever two abilities that one prefers for the optimization. Pick whatever feat sounds cool. And presto! Flavor it as any race that one wishes.

There is zero need to change anything.

Just make all races in the game − including any player invented races − use the same stats as the Human race. Done. And done.

Why ruin the fun for the other players who appreciate coherent thematic races for their setting?

For these players, the Halfling *should* be less strong on average, compared to other races. This ability tendency has implications for what classes would flourish most frequently within a Halfling culture.

A set of holistic race-class types is an intuitive way to interact with an imaginary world. Such thematics helps build a coherent world with meaningful distinctiveness and diversity − that players can easily recognize and keep track of.



So, peace. Feel free to use the Human race only. The rest of us can add in all the other races.
 
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Alexemplar

First Post
I do have to say that I miss 4e, where your class would give you a bonus to the ability scores most useful to that class. Placed less priority on the race to deliver that bonus when you knew your class was going to give it to you instead. Then again, a lot of people still tried to stack every bonus they could.

Oh what a +1 can do to motivate people.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I do have to say that I miss 4e, where your class would give you a bonus to the ability scores most useful to that class. Placed less priority on the race to deliver that bonus when you knew your class was going to give it to you instead. Then again, a lot of people still tried to stack every bonus they could.

Oh what a +1 can do to motivate people.

No, it didn't work that way.
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
Most frequently, players select a specific race-class combo as a specific type of character. The reason for a particular combination can include flavor, mechanics, the mechanics viewed as a kind of flavor (strong, smart, charming, etcetera), D&D traditional flavor, personal preference, and so on.



Certain players (heh, mostly character optimizers) prefer to decouple race from class, and describe freeform race mechanics as their ideal design.

Yet all this describes is the Human race design. Pick whatever two abilities that one prefers for the optimization. Pick whatever feat sounds cool. And presto! Flavor it as any race that one wishes.

There is zero need to change anything.

Just make all races in the game − including any player invented races − use the same stats as the Human race. Done. And done.

Why ruin the fun for the other players who appreciate coherent thematic races for their setting?

For these players, the Halfling *should* be less strong on average, compared to other races. This ability tendency has implications for what classes would flourish most frequently within a Halfling culture.

A set of holistic race-class types is an intuitive way to interact with an imaginary world. Such thematics helps build a coherent world with meaningful distinctiveness and diversity − that players can easily recognize and keep track of.



So, peace. Feel free to use the Human race only. The rest of us can add in all the other races.



Wait. You know, this kinda reminds me of Gary Gygax, in his book Unearthed Arcana. When a player plays a Drow Elf, it is possible to use either the hyperspecific way that the original Drow generated abilities, or instead, just use the normal Human way of generating abilities.

A DM can for *every* race, allow the player to use either the features of that race including the ability improvements, or instead use the features of the Feat Human. The DM might want to encourage specific abilities or a specific feat, but let the player choose.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I do have to say that I miss 4e, where your class would give you a bonus to the ability scores most useful to that class.
I missed that version of 4e, entirely. ;P
Seriously, though, "D&D Gamma World," which was 4e-like in many of it's mechanics, used a system in which your two Origins were randomly determined, and in turn, determined your highest score. That could have easily been adapted to 4e classes, which tended to have a primary and secondary stat, using the GW style system, you'd get an 18 in the former and a 16 in the latter - then fill in the other 4 stats by rolling 3d6, in order. Yeah. ;) It was a fun version of GW.


No, it didn't work that way.
Other than GW, there may have been some variant chargen that worked like that, from something, somewhere (4e? PF? 13A? some d20 game or other...?) ... it's teasing at my memory...
 

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