Race Design

[Khaalis]

Ok, so I am looking at OLD to see if it can serve to fit my homebrew campaign setting better than the current d20 system I use. I've read over the races and Designing Races sections but I'm a little vague still on the concepts.

I understand that you are a proponent of all races not being created equal, but just HOW far off do you feel is still acceptable? What constitutes imbalanced?

When it comes to assigning Attributes, how many Attribute points is too much and how does it really effect balance? Also, isn't the lizardman way below he curve at only 13 attributes?

For example:
Dwarf (21 attributes)
Grand Elf (22 attributes)
Human (19 attributes)
Lizardman (13 attribute)
Ogres (20 attributes)
Sylvan Elf (21 attributes)
Smallfolk (23 attributes)
Orc (18 attributes)

[Side Note 1 - In the Races section humans are listed as a 3 in each of the core 6 attributes, but in the Race Creation section you say they have 2's and that a 2 in each stat should be the gauge for attributes? Did attributes change after the race creation section was written?]


Also, how do you determine balance for Racial Bonuses? Some of the racial bonuses don't seem to measure up. For instance is a free piece of equipment for elves even close to being on-par with what other races get?

Dwarf (7 skills / +2 Defense, Speed 4; Darkvision; Max Magic 1; Stability)
Grand Elf (6 skills / 1 Free Equipment (musket or pistol))
Human (7 skills / +1 Attribute point)
Lizardman (4 skills / 1d6 Vulnerability to Cold; Poison Breath)
Ogre (4 skills / Defense -2; Soak 5)
Sylvan Elf (5 skills / 1 free Plant spell)
Smallfolk (5 Skills / +2 Defense, Darkvision)
Orc (4 skills / Berserk Rage)

[Side Note 2 - I think the Magic restriction rather harsh for a "Standard Fantasy" dwarf since it means they really can't have clerics. Maybe limit Max Magic = WIL?]

[Side Note 3 - I feel that only 3 skills may be a bit restrictive. What was the reasoning for such a short skill list based on racial heritage?

 

[Morrus]

You've spotted a typo. Originally the average starting value was 2 for each attribute, modified up or down a little by race. Playtesting found that to be a tiny bit low, so these days it's 3, which has proven to be about right.

So add 1 to each of the Lizardman's attributes (except MAG and LUC).

The acceptable range is around 19-21. You can go slightly lower or higher, and make the special abilities a bit weaker or stronger (as you've noticed with the Grand Elves).

The length of the initial skill list was 2 skills; it went up to 3 a couple of months ago. It's important to remember that a skill isn't an ability to do something - you can do most things as long as you have a decent attribute for it and the difficulty benchmark isn't too high - it just means you're exceptional at that particular thing.

 

[Khaalis]

Thanks for the reply. This leads me to a few more questions.

It seems as if you are following the more recent trend of making Race less important in the character design process. Will there be any optional rules for making Race more important or do you see Races as being mostly important for their Attribute array since most of the system runs completely off of Attributes?

Why I ask is because I like systems where race is important and there are fairly decent mechanical differences between races. I also look for the ability to use/convert the races in my Homebrew campaign. Currently, I'm not sure the system can create some of these races. Just as an example, how would you convert say a Changeling to the WOiN system?

Also how would you convert the following?

GIANT
Type: Humanoid
Size: Large (10-12'; 2x2 squares; Reach)
Speed: 50 ft
Attributes: No modifiers
Traits:
* Hurled weapon proficiency
* Strong: You consider your STR as +10 for carrying capacity.
* Giant's Stability: You are considered Huge for Trample attacks and resisting Bull Rush and trip attempts.
* Natural Attack: Trample I (1d8+STR dmg)
* Tough Hide: Reduce Critical hit damage by 4.


Thanks for any reply. As I said, I may be in a minority, but I prefer race to matter and have a real impact on the character.

 

[Morrus]

@LucasC already created a changeling type of race.

I must admit, I'm struggling to see the difficulty in making that giant. What part of it do you feel you can't convert? Give it some appropriate stats, make sure it has the throwing and carry skills, give it 10 SOAK and size large (or bigger if you want) plus the same stability ability dwarves have, perhaps.

Here's a very quick attempt.

Giant Giants are mighty, towering humanoids able to carry large loads.

STR 5 AGI 2 END 4 INT 3 WIL 2 CHA 2 MAG 0 LUC 1 ​

CARRY, THROWING, (couple of other skills) ​

Large Size: -2 DEFENSE, SPEED 6, SOAK 5 Giants are very stable and inflict a -2 die penalty to any attempt to use the knockdown or trip combat tricks Giants get the trample combat trick for free* ​

*(then I'd just write a quick trample combat trick since it's throttle of thing that might come in useful elsewhere!)

 

[Khaalis]

Do you consider a 5 as the maximum starting Attribute score? I'm just curious as I'd want Giants to be stronger than Ogres, which could mean either +1 for the giant or -1 for the ogre. Also, how do you feel about the giant's power level? It seems rather loaded compared to some of the core races and I wouldn't want to get too imbalanced.

How would this be for a stab at Changeling?

CHANGELING Doppelgangers are shapeshifting fey from an area of the Otherworld known as Faerie and often travel to the natural world to wreak their form of chaos and mischief. It is common folklore that doppelgangers have a particular fondness for stealing human babies and replacing them with their own progeny. These doppelgangers grow up among humanoids and reproduce. Other doppelgangers simply mimic humanoids and infiltrate their societies, also gaining the opportunity to reproduce. The resulting offspring are called changelings, shapeshifting fey of the natural world. While they do not possess the full shapeshifting powers of their doppelganger ancestors, they are a race able to assume the features of other fey and folk humanoids. Type: Medium biped fey

STR 2 AGI 3 END 3 INT 4 WIL 3 CHA 4 MAG 0 LUC 2​

Acting, Bluffing, Disguise, Linguistics, Local Knowledge​

Changeling Disguise: Is an at-will power that allows the changeling character to transform their appearance to that of any other medium sized humanoid race. The character keeps their statistics in their new form and their apparel does not change. This transformation lasts until the changeling changes their appearance. Strong Willed: You have a +1 racial bonus to your derived Mental Defense.

 

[Morrus]

You could increase the giant's STR, but I think you'd need something to balance it out. Maybe a major issue with ambush turns, being so big and ... obvious.

I find the Changeling odd. You give it a low WIL then describe it as strong-willed? Why not simply drop that ability and increase it's WIL?

The other lowish attributes are fine, given a powerful at-will ability. You should specify the action type of that - one action, two, a minute? Does it have a duration? As written it's permanent which seems pretty powerful. Overall, I think its pretty good!

 

[Khaalis]

ON SHAPECHANGE
The text I used is the 4E version.

The 3.5E Version...

Minor changeshape (Su): Changelings have the ability to alter their appearance as though using a disguise self spell, this does not affect their possessions. This is not an illusory effect but a minor physical alteration of features. The changeling can use this at will and lasts until they choose to change again or are killed in which case they revert to their natural form. A true seeing spell reveals their natural form. When in use this ability gives the changeling a +10 circumstance bonus to disguise checks. Using this ability is a full-round action.

Combining the two.
Changeling Disguise: Is an at-will power that allows the changeling character to transform their appearance to that of any other medium sized humanoid race. This transformation requires 2 consecutive actions. The character keeps their statistics in their new form and their apparel does not change. This transformation lasts until the changeling changes their appearance. A true seeing spell reveals their natural form.


On Will
I based it on this:
* In 3.5E = "+2 racial bonus to saving throws against sleep and charm effects."
* in 4E = "You have a +1 racial bonus to Will."

However, neither version gets a bonus to Wisdom. Also, why do you say a WIL 3 is low? I thought that was the standard average? What if you want someone to have a better Mental Defense without being better at all WIL related rolls?

 

[Morrus]

You'll probably want to clean up the D&D-isms in there. WIL 3 isn't low, you're right - but it's certainly not "strong-willed", either. And WIL isn't the same as Wisdom - that's a different game!

I'd honestly just go with the WIL increase, but it's up to you - your race, after all! It just seems a bit awkward the way is is right now. +1 to a DEFENSE is pretty small, too - remember that each dice in a dice pool contributes on average 3.5, and the game tends to use that as the base unit for advantages and disadvantages (bonus and penalties are either a die or two or they're a static 3 or 4, in general, though there are exceptions).

 

[Khaalis]

Thanks for the info.

Here is the new version.

CHANGELING Doppelgangers are shapeshifting fey from an area of the Otherworld known as Faerie and often travel to the natural world to wreak their form of chaos and mischief. It is common folklore that doppelgangers have a particular fondness for stealing human babies and replacing them with their own progeny. These doppelgangers grow up among humanoids and reproduce. Other doppelgangers simply mimic humanoids and infiltrate their societies, also gaining the opportunity to reproduce. The resulting offspring are called changelings, shapeshifting fey of the natural world. While they do not possess the full shapeshifting powers of their doppelganger ancestors, they are a race able to assume the features of other fey and folk humanoids. Type: Medium biped fey

STR 2 AGI 3 END 3 INT 4 WIL 4 CHA 4 MAG 0 LUC 2​

Acting, Bluffing, Disguise, Linguistics, Local Knowledge​

Changeling Disguise: Using two consecutive actions, you can transform your appearance to that of any other medium sized humanoid race. You keeps your statistics in the new form but your apparel does not change. This transformation lasts until you change your appearance again.You also gain a +1 die bonus to Disguise checks.

 

[Morrus]

That looks pretty good! I'd use it in my campaign!