Race First!

[The Human Target]

Ugh. I'd rather the differences be small but significant, which is pretty close to how things are now. If race made no difference whatsoever, then the racial choice as it is would be purely cosmetical, mere window-dressing.

I could see giving more freedom in stat bonuses, and letting racial feats and the racial power determine who is best at what, but with the one main stat + choice of two model they're using right now, I think we're pretty close to that model already.

I'd rather be able to make a half-orc wizard thats as good as an eladrin wizard myself.

I'm pro no stat bonuses at all from race.

 

[The Human Target]

The new updates go some way towards race/class versatility, at least, by giving you a choice where to assign one of your ability bonuses. It's not total freedom, but at least it'll widen the choice of "best fit" classes for each race and vice versa.

Anyway, even poor-fit classes can be fun in their own way. My Eladrin fighter was one of the earliest characters I made, and he's been great fun to play.

An eladrin Fighter is sub optimal, but he has the feat support to end up pretty good actually.

 

[Stormonu]

I think it would be an interesting twist to have the class provide stat modifiers, instead of the race. For ex., the Fighter might get +2 Str, +2 Con.

You'd probably have to give race an additional trick or two to make up for what you lose to class, though.

 

[Ahrimon]

I think I could embrace a DnD that eliminated attribute modifiers to race. There are enough other options to model the iconic racial abilities that used to be attributed only to a races attributes.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think it would be an interesting twist to have the class provide stat modifiers, instead of the race. For ex., the Fighter might get +2 Str, +2 Con.

You'd probably have to give race an additional trick or two to make up for what you lose to class, though.

While I think that's a very interesting and flavorful idea, I still think racial stat mods make sense- even negative ones. A Goliath is simply going to be stronger, on average, than a Halfling...and correspondingly less agile than the same.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It makes sense that you would pick race first. I mean, you were a dwarf long before you became a Runepriest, an elf long before you became a ranger, etc...

I also think you should try rolling 4d6, drop the lowest, and come up with 2 sets of 6 numbers, but that's a different thread.

Hmm... that's something I hadn't thought about in years. Back when I ran 1e (ie, when I was a dumb kid) I had tables so a player could randomly determine his race, place of origin, social class and stats - since, afterall, we don't pick our parents, do we? Vanishingly few players took me up on it.

 

[bert1000]

After we hit paragon, the players who had rolled these ridiculously awesome stats suggested to the DM that we switch to point buy from here on out, because the power difference between most of us and the 22 was glaring.

Yeah, that's why if people want to roll instead of point buy, we usually have the group roll an array and everyone gets to use the same array. This allows for some variation to the usual point buy stats without screwing certain players.

 

[hafrogman]

Yeah, that's why if people want to roll instead of point buy, we usually have the group roll an array and everyone gets to use the same array. This allows for some variation to the usual point buy stats without screwing certain players.

I'm wondering how the opposite would work, now. Everyone uses one of the standard arrays, but the scores are assigned randomly to each character. Maybe by say, rolling 3d6 for each stat, and your highest roll gets assigned the highest array value remaining, with ties being player choice.

16,14,13,12,11,10

Str: 3d6 = 9 -> 12 or 11, player choice
Dex: 3d6 = 15 -> 16
Con: 3d6 = 9 -> 12 or 11, player choice
Int: 3d6 = 10 -> 13
Wis: 3d6 = 13 -> 14
Cha: 3d6 = 6 -> 10

Sort of brings back the OD&D feel of not knowing what your character will be good at until the dice start rolling, without the balance issues of full-on rolling. Combine with race first for truly unpredictable characters. It does require the players to give up a certain amount of control, but with the right group it could be a lot of fun.

 

[Camelot]

I like racial modifiers, and in fact I think they're necessary to retain the flavor of the game. You can make a really good half-orc wizard, but when it comes down to it, even the best half-orc wizard will not be as good as the best eladrin wizard. This is how it is supposed to be in the game world, so the racial ability modifiers are doing their job.

 

[The Human Target]

I like racial modifiers, and in fact I think they're necessary to retain the flavor of the game. You can make a really good half-orc wizard, but when it comes down to it, even the best half-orc wizard will not be as good as the best eladrin wizard. This is how it is supposed to be in the game world, so the racial ability modifiers are doing their job.

I'm just not interested in that concept in the game world.

But hey, I'm weird. I'm pro removing ability scores as a way to derive hit and damage and defenses etc anyway.