Races & Classes details from the WotC boards

[MerricB]

I figure the ultimate litmus test of whether an edition can be considered "still D&D" or not relates directly to whether a group can continue to play in their preferred "vanilla plus toppings" homebrew campaign setting or not. There are folks that have playing in the same world across decades and multiple editions. If 4E suddenly makes it impossible to continue to do so (without huge amounts of works or waiting 3 years for supplements) it fails the test.

Unfortunately, pretty much every edition of D&D fails that test.

oD&D -> AD&D is the only one that really qualifies.

BECM D&D goes on a really divergent path.

AD&D 1E->2E removes half-orcs, assassins, monks, demons, did weird things to the Ranger, etc.

AD&D 2E->D&D 3E had vastly different interpretations of various classes and races...

Cheers!

 

[Atlatl Jones]

If there ever was a time, it is NOW to rename the 'Barbarian' to 'Berserker.'

That short little blurb about them makes me think the Barbarian will be even closer to a Warhammer Trollslayer (or the 2e Battle Rager kit)... and that's fine by me!

But cripes, CHANGE THE NAME!

QFMFT! The name isn't that important a sacred cow that it needs to be kept.

 

[pawsplay]

QFMFT! The name isn't that important a sacred cow that it needs to be kept.

In fact, in BECMI, "barbarians" were NPCs and Berserkers were 1+1 HD humanoids.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Unfortunately, pretty much every edition of D&D fails that test.

Yeah. You can talk about vanilla and toppings all you want, between all of the arguments that have already been made about whether 4E is saving or destroying the world, it should be pretty clear at this point that people can't agree on what parts are the vanilla and what parts are the toppings.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Unfortunately, pretty much every edition of D&D fails that test.

oD&D -> AD&D is the only one that really qualifies.

BECM D&D goes on a really divergent path.

AD&D 1E->2E removes half-orcs, assassins, monks, demons, did weird things to the Ranger, etc.

AD&D 2E->D&D 3E had vastly different interpretations of various classes and races...

Cheers!

Wouldn't say that, personally. I've taken my players through the Known World in Basic D&D, AD&D 2E and D&D 3E most recently....and so far, it always worked well.

Cheers!

 

[Reynard]

AD&D 1E->2E removes half-orcs, assassins, monks, demons, did weird things to the Ranger, etc.

I disagree that this is a game breaker (or world breaker) as the systems are so close that you can use 1E stuff with 2E pretty easily, and vice versa.

AD&D 2E->D&D 3E had vastly different interpretations of various classes and races...

But all the sacred cows were atill there and while some mechanical systems changed a great deal, core 3E hewed very close to the "typical D&D" implied setting, which is the important part. 4E's flavor re-invention is going to be a lot harder on existing worlds -- published or homebrewed -- than any mechanical changes it implements.

 

[Aeolius]

There are folks that have playing in the same world across decades and multiple editions. If 4E suddenly makes it impossible to continue to do so (without huge amounts of works or waiting 3 years for supplements) it fails the test.

Bingo!

Unfortunately, pretty much every edition of D&D fails that test.
oD&D -> AD&D is the only one that really qualifies.
BECM D&D goes on a really divergent path.
AD&D 1E->2E removes half-orcs, assassins, monks, demons, did weird things to the Ranger, etc.
AD&D 2E->D&D 3E had vastly different interpretations of various classes and races...

You forgot about leap-grognards. For those of us who skipped 2e, jumping from 1e to 3e was relatively painless.

 

[Derren]

Not to forget that in the 2E->3E transition suddenly sorcerers appeared (or existing wizards suddenly became sorcerers) that isn't much different from Tieflings and Dragonborn becoming more prominent now.

 

[Mad Mac]

Another update from the Wizard boards, this one with Rogues and Warlocks...(and lots of general mechanical tidbits mixed in)

Rogues

Sneak attack is easier. Apart from flanking, some spell and special abilities will also give combat advantage to rogues. Combat advantage is the name for the state when a rogue can sneak attack a foe. Immunity to sneak attack is nearly gone. Immunities are almost gone from 4th ed, replaced by damage threshold (something like DR).
Rogues have follow-up attack after successful attack (extra damage or penalties).
High powered abilities allow multiple attack and tactical movement.
Rogues are still skill monkey.
Skill level rises with level. Listen & Spot; Move silently & Hide; Open lock and Sleight of Hand is combined. Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft and Read Magic is combined to Arcane. Approximately the skill list is cut in half.
Some uses of a skill, like the avoidance of AoO by Tumble will b tied to feats or class abilities. Trapfinding is a feat (rogues have it by default), but others can have it too.

Warlock

They make pacts with devils, feys, the starts, elemental powers. Their initial pact determines a large part of their powers. There are four types of it: Infernal, Fey, Vestige and Star.
Primary attack is eldritch blast and soul ruin.
You can transpose yourself and later others as well.
Invocation can summon.
Curses are an integral part of your power. Curses are associated with your pact. They are per encounter damage dealing / crippling powers. Cursed creatures are easier to damage with your blast or soul ruin. When a cursed creature is dropped to 0 hp, you gain a powerful follow up attack against nearby foes.
As for alignment, most creatures and PC will be unaligned.

 

[Simon Marks]

Another update from the Wizard boards, this one with Rogues and Warlocks...(and lots of general mechanical tidbits mixed in)

They make pacts with devils, feys, the starts, elemental powers. Their initial pact determines a large part of their powers. There are four types of it: Infernal, Fey, Vestige and Star.

Good, Warlocks have shaken off their 'Pact with Evil' route and can make pacts with other things.

Stars?

Stars?