Races of Destiny: First Look

[reanjr]

Prestige classes are done differently in this book. Much more detail is given to how they exist. They each get 3 to 5 pages and there are only six total. Also there are Racial Substitution levels for Half Elves and Half Orcs for certain classes.

It's almost unfathomable how happy it makes me that Wizards has finally read the section in the DMG on prestige classes.

There are some very noticeable errors here too, Tieflings do not have their Energy Resistance listed in their Racial Traits. The Chameleon PrC requires Spellcraft skill but does not include it as a class skill.

While certainly unusual to require Spellcraft and not grant it as a class skill, I wouldn't jump to it being an error. Given the nature of the class, I would thinj it would be by design. You have to learn a little about spellcraft to be able to use those abilities, yet the class isn't a standard spell slinging class, so...

The one big problem with this book is the Illumians.

Like them, hate them or just indifferent, of this 192 page book, over 50 pages are just for them. Two Prestige classes (10 pages) and 9 feats are exclusively theirs and 40 pages are for their race and culture. But those "Ilumian sigils" that are over at WotC's web site? They are not in the book??

Humans get about 28 pages, Half Elves & Half Orcs about 18 between them and the Other races above just 20 pages all together.

For a race that is just lame to me, this is too much.

Well, if they've cut out 30 useless pages for prestige classes, then I'm OK with that, I suppose. They SHOULD get more cultural explanation for them due to the fact that they are new and have nothing and will have nothing published about them. I'm not too fond of the race, but if one were, then having that information is very nice.

Especially when you consider what other "Human-kin" races could have been included.
Jann as Half Genies, Gensai (elemental, paramental, and quasimental), Tallfellow Halflings as those with Human blood, as well as a Half Dwarf or Half Gnome, the Vampyres from Ravenloft as predatory humans and even the Vistani, Quevari and Aber Nomads could have been used. Also, the races included could have had better detail. In Races of Faerun, Aasimar & Tieflings got a much better description.

I don't know how the license works, but it seems to me that Wizards probably isn't allowed to publish gaming material on Ravenloft specific races. Not to mention, I don't think any of them fit in Wizards' view of D&D.

There is also a lot of wasted space in this book where NPCs are stated and they give the full definition of every class ability, full stats of every familiar and repeat the exact information for a Prestige class ability that is on the previous page.

That's something I really hate. When I see an NPC, I want to be given his Ability Scores and his class levels. If he has some sort of choice (like ranger's fighting style) then tell me that. Other than that, get on with the actual NPC and not the stat block.

 

[Dark Psion]

Illuminan Cabals

One of the two most common types of cabals is the chain cabal. They specialize in spying and infiltrating nearby power centers and goverments.

Did I mention the brightly glowing runes circiling the heards of all Illuminans?

Unless they are infiltrating the Order of the Stick (Put some ranks in your Spot check Belkar!), I really don't see how they can be such great "infiltrators".

As to the Chameleon, Yes the Able Learner feat makes all cross class skill ranks only cost 1 point for you, but Prestige Class 101 says if a skill is prerequisite, it is a class skill.

As to the repitition, I know what Evasion does, they do not have to include a detailed description and they especially do not have to repeat it again and again.

If they feel a need to include the description, why not include an Appendix of definitions in the back?

{Edit} I incuded the Ravenloft races as examples as Near-Humans. Plus I have always liked the Vampyre race. Just when you expect to encounter an Undead creature, you discover that the enemy is a human like you. But a human with the instincts of a hunter and the hunger of a beast.{/Edit}

 

[MerricB]

Illuminan Cabals

One of the two most common types of cabals is the chain cabal. They specialize in spying and infiltrating nearby power centers and goverments.

Did I mention the brightly glowing runes circiling the heards of all Illuminans?

Have another look - I think you'll find they can make them disappear.

Cheers!

 

[Silveras]

I also got my copy today and have now had a chance to peruse it. I have to mostly agree with Dark Psion.

As I posted to my on-line gaming group, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs share 17 pages; Humans got 28 to cover generally the same range of topics, and Illumians get 37.

Most of the first 3 chapters is flavor (fluff). Almost ALL of it is useless to me and my games. In general, I am in much greater need of information/ideas about how non-human or part human races *differ* from humans. I do not need a 28 page discussion of "How to be human". Humans are ambitious. Humans work and play hard. Competition is important to humans. Yes, and ... ? Where's the useful NEW infomation ? In terms of religion, two new gods are added - but topics that would have been useful to expound upon (Pantheism, Monotheism, and Deism) are given 1 paragraph each.

The Illumians, as basically humans, occupy far too large a percentage of the book, as noted. I would much rather have seen Aasimar and Tieflings get more than the 2 pages each devoted to them. Even if the Ravenloft and other licensed properties are out of reach, more on the Planetouched (including Zenythri and Chaonds) would have been more desirable. I did more with Doppelgangers in a single 2E adventure than their 2 pages here touches on. Oh, and in most of these 2-page treatments, a sizable chunk of space is the same as the "X as Characters" material in the monster write-up.

To be sure, some of the feats and spells are useful. The new checks for several skills are interesting, and will work nicely in most campaigns. The section on adding detail to cities is a bit thin, but does expand on what is in the DMG. (Although I think Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe, from Expeditious Retreat Press, and CityWorks, from Fantasy Flight Games, both did a better job of fleshing out cities.)

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

It's almost unfathomable how happy it makes me that Wizards has finally read the section in the DMG on prestige classes.

It'd've been nicer if they hadn't gone hog-wild on each one. I think that format is just too much. Ugh.

Brad

 

[Samurai]

I actually really like the Illumians. I find them to be FAR more interesting than the Goliaths from Races of Stone. I'm glad they devoted the space they did to detail their culture, as it is what really sets them apart IMO.

As MerricB said, they can douse their sigils easily, and considering so many of them are conspiratorial spies and puppet masters, I'd imagine they spend most of their time with them doused. In fact, it makes them extremely easy to insert into a campaign... once the PCs find out about Illumians, they may discover that several "human" friends or enemies are not human at all... Inserting a race like Goliaths is a far tougher retcon.

 

[Gez]

Yeah, but it's also somewhat... Lacking? I dunno. "That new race can be inserted easily because they look like humans with glowing sigils orbiting their head, and they can disguise themselves by hiding the sigils. This other are humans whose soul is merged with a spirit from the Plane of Dreams. And that race looks just like elves, except they can speak to snakes. This race looks just like halflings, except they can shapeshift into a Gargantuan 12-legged reptilian elephant."

True, it's easy to retcon them, but on the other hand, it's kinda lazy. The "you never heard of them before because you thought they were simply gnomes" approach can get old real fast.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Most of the first 3 chapters is flavor (fluff). Almost ALL of it is useless to me and my games.

I'm sorry, but this is just beautiful. After so many crunch vs. fluff debates, we finally get fluff. And what happens? Its usless in people's games because it isn't the fluff they wanted. Ahh, beautiful. Not picking on anyone in particular, just finding it kind of interesting to actually see this coming true. (Its not a bad thing, either, I prefer to create my own fluff and don't like being told how races should act. Give me the stats and I'll go from there)

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'm sorry, but this is just beautiful. After so many crunch vs. fluff debates, we finally get fluff. And what happens? Its usless in people's games because it isn't the fluff they wanted. Ahh, beautiful. Not picking on anyone in particular, just finding it kind of interesting to actually see this coming true. (Its not a bad thing, either, I prefer to create my own fluff and don't like being told how races should act. Give me the stats and I'll go from there)

That's why I call BS on people demanding fluff. They want THEIR fluff. Someone compared a book and the need for it to fit their needs like getting good dry cleaning doen not realizing that one is a product, a consumable, the other a service, one a innate and uncaring object, the other personalized for the customer.

I enjoyed many parts of Races of Destiny. Parts could've been expanded. I wanted more racial substitition levels for example. The Iniaite Feats for the Greyhawk Gods were a big thumbs up for me.

 

[Zweischneid]

I'm sorry, but this is just beautiful. After so many crunch vs. fluff debates, we finally get fluff. And what happens? Its usless in people's games because it isn't the fluff they wanted. Ahh, beautiful. Not picking on anyone in particular, just finding it kind of interesting to actually see this coming true. (Its not a bad thing, either, I prefer to create my own fluff and don't like being told how races should act. Give me the stats and I'll go from there)

That's why I call BS on people demanding fluff. They want THEIR fluff. Someone compared a book and the need for it to fit their needs like getting good dry cleaning doen not realizing that one is a product, a consumable, the other a service, one a innate and uncaring object, the other personalized for the customer.

I enjoyed many parts of Races of Destiny. Parts could've been expanded. I wanted more racial substitition levels for example. The Iniaite Feats for the Greyhawk Gods were a big thumbs up for me.

I think your both overreacting a bit just to voice your own distaste of fluffy books.

People have argued about the quality and value (i.e. is it good or bad?) of crunchy bits of certain books enough to fill whole libraries and have also come to the overall consensus that some crunch is just generally bad (3.0 Haste, Frenzied Berserker, etc.. come to mind: of course as always there are exceptions) without concluding that crunch in general is just bad.

Now we have a fluffy book and people are discussing the quality and value (i.e. is it good or bad?) of the fluffy bits of Races of Destiny and seem to come to the overall consensus that its mostly bad fluff (again, exceptions are always present and your milage my differ.. I've known people who thought 3.0 Haste to be the better spell too)

That certainly doesn't kill the need for fluff in general, nor does it mean it's impossible to come up with fluffy books that are good in quality and value without necessarily being MY fluff (Eberron or Midnight Campaign Settings seem to fill that category for a fair amount of people.

So all it boils down to, is that Races of Destiny is a less than thrilling book. Deal with it. You wouldn't refuse crunch and rules in general the right to exist based on one badly designed crunchy book either.