D&D (2024) Racial options without built in spells

[Sir Brennen]

As in everything that a character can do is either something they can perform at-will, during a particular encounter, or on a daily basis. These were carried over into 5e, weren't they?

Some of them, but one could argue they were there in 3E as well, then. 4E made powers much more rigorously structured and codified in a way that 5E only lightly does (but more than 3E). I see moving more Arbitrary Number/Day abilities to be Proficiency Bonus/Day is also probably another step in that structured direction, and I think it's a good idea (despite being only luke-warm on 4E).

 

[Corinnguard]

This sounds like a RAW vs RAI Issue then. 4e being more RAW than RAI, and 5e being just the opposite.

I do like the idea of certain racial abilities having their uses tied to the proficiency bonus.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the more accurate phrasing for 4E would be "make everything a power", which include spells and class abilities.

Sometimes I like to imagine what the response would have been if they’d formatted and presented the books more like they did Star Wars Saga Edition.

Just write out what it does in sentences.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In D&D generally, everything either is a spell or could be a spell.

The only question is format.

Even a sword attack could be a "martial cantrip", if using the spell format.

Precisely. I believe Yaarel has it right.

Are Channel Divinities spells? Not technically, no, because they use a different management format than spell slots. But is there anything about the powers themselves that would tell us they couldn't be spells if you added them to the cleric and paladin spell lists? Nope.

Likewise Wildshape could easily be a spell if it's formatting and recharge was changed. Bardic Inspiration could be a spell. Barbarian Rage could be a spell. Action Surge could be a spell. Pretty much every single Class feature could be a spell, and every single spell could be a Class feature if you just changed the formatting a bit of narrative and how it recharges.

You want less magic? Turn a set selection of a class's 1st level spells into a handful of class features that can only be used 4 times per long rest and don't require components (not that most of us use components anyway). Then just refluff the the game mechanic so that its narrative isn't supernatural. Expeditious Retreat? It's the same mechanic as the Rogue's Cunning Action. So it's only a spell and magical if you run it that way.

 

[Parmandur]

Sometimes I like to imagine what the response would have been if they’d formatted and presented the books more like they did Star Wars Saga Edition.

Just write out what it does in sentences.

At the time, I honest to God was expecting Star Wars Saga was just 4E. I'm not sure tonthis day whybit wasn't.

 

[Sir Brennen]

You want less magic? Turn a set selection of a class's 1st level spells into a handful of class features that can only be used 4 times per long rest and don't require components (not that most of us use components anyway). Then just refluff the the game mechanic so that its narrative isn't supernatural. Expeditious Retreat? It's the same mechanic as the Rogue's Cunning Action. So it's only a spell and magical if you run it that way.

I think some overt magical abilities, especially ones based on actual spell descriptions, might be harder to refluff than others. Flame bolt and misty step, for examples.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

At the time, I honest to God was expecting Star Wars Saga was just 4E. I'm not sure tonthis day whybit wasn't.

Yeah honestly I think it would have worked better.

 

[MarkB]

At the time, I honest to God was expecting Star Wars Saga was just 4E. I'm not sure tonthis day whybit wasn't.

I was really hoping that 4e would build upon SWSE, especially its easy multiclassing structure. That system was just, like, two steps away from being a truly classless system, which would have been a really interesting direction to take.

 

[Parmandur]

I was really hoping that 4e would build upon SWSE, especially its easy multiclassing structure. That system was just, like, two steps away from being a truly classless system, which would have been a really interesting direction to take.

I really liked it! 4E blindsided me by not just giving me Forgotten Realms Saga.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I think some overt magical abilities, especially ones based on actual spell descriptions, might be harder to refluff than others. Flame bolt and misty step, for examples.

You definitely would need to select certain spells over others to "de-magic" them... but with the number of spells out there it should be possible. You won't get the "best" spells necessarily... but if you're trying to go non-magic there's no reason to assume you should be able to take all the most powerful magics anyway.