Racial stat bonuses and system balance

[Kzach]

I was wondering what sort of system balance repercussions there would be if you allowed the racial stat bonuses to be placed wherever the player wanted, or perhaps one physical and one mental.

I'm not too fussed by people having two 18's in stats they really want to have high, I'm just wondering what, if any, negative impact that would have on the game as a whole.

 

[mattdm]

I was wondering what sort of system balance repercussions there would be if you allowed the racial stat bonuses to be placed wherever the player wanted, or perhaps one physical and one mental.

Well, for one thing, they wouldn't really be racial bonuses anymore, would they?

I'm not too fussed by people having two 18's in stats they really want to have high, I'm just wondering what, if any, negative impact that would have on the game as a whole.

I suggest simply giving higher point buy, if that's what you want. This can have a huge impact in 3E, and since ability boosting items and spells are out, it'll be even more so in 4E. It'll mean the players can easily dispatch challenges a couple of levels higher than expected.

Why not try and redefine 16 as "awesomely high", and then keep the game balance as designed?

 

[charlesatan]

I was wondering what sort of system balance repercussions there would be if you allowed the racial stat bonuses to be placed wherever the player wanted, or perhaps one physical and one mental.

I'm not too fussed by people having two 18's in stats they really want to have high, I'm just wondering what, if any, negative impact that would have on the game as a whole.

Honestly, it'll affect the game only a little (perhaps the Humans will be losing out) although it does have an effect on flavor/fluff. For example, Elves make excellent Rangers because their stat bonuses applies to two of the Ranger's prized attributes. And some people will start complaining if Dwarves get +2 Dex, +2 Cha (usually penalties in previous editions of the game) just so that your player can play a competent Dwarvish Rogue.

 

[Kzach]

Well, for one thing, they wouldn't really be racial bonuses anymore, would they?



I suggest simply giving higher point buy, if that's what you want. This can have a huge impact in 3E, and since ability boosting items and spells are out, it'll be even more so in 4E. It'll mean the players can easily dispatch challenges a couple of levels higher than expected.

Why not try and redefine 16 as "awesomely high", and then keep the game balance as designed?

Huh?

How is this even remotely related to what I posted?

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Huh?

How is this even remotely related to what I posted?

What do you mean? What mattdm wrote is 100% relevant to your post. He's saying that what makes racial ability bonuses 'racial' is the fact that they are applied to specific abilities. An elf is an elf because he has superior Dex and Wis.

 

[PeelSeel2]

I thought about doing the same thing. Give all new characters +2 to two different stats. Give them +3 defense to split among the defenses. Or I thought about doing away entirely with the stat bonuses for race. Make them roll 3d6. I have until Friday to decide....

 

[mattdm]

So, the big thing is that as the game stands now, no race has stat bonuses which synergize perfectly with any of the classes. Changing the bonuses to free-floating will be equivalent to an increase in power.

If your goal is precisely to allow that synergy more easily, changing the races to one fixed and one floating (and giving humans a second floating +2) at least retains a little flavor — but would still be a pretty big power increase.

 

[DanChops]

One thing to consider is that some races (such as Eladrin) seem to have more useful non-attribute bonus racial features (Fey step, +1 Will defense, etc.) This is balanced by the fact that both of Eladrin's stat bonuses (Int and Dex) "feed into" Reflex, and so the Eladrin's stat bonuses aren't as useful for buffing defenses as, say, the Dwarf's (Con and Wis, Fort and Will.)