Racism in RPGs, especially related to fantastic races

[Dioltach]

"Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because -- what with trolls and dwarfs and so on -- speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green." -- Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad

Besides that quote, I have little to add, except that the basic RPG rule applies here: if it adds to your group's enjoyment, throw it in; if it detracts from the enjoyment, throw it out.

 

[MrHemlocks]

This discussion seems to be important as well, so here's the thread for it. Starting with a poll.

My own view? I view racism towards fantasy races as a bad thing unless the history of the setting gives a reason (as in orcs = demonspawn etc). That doesn't mean I am against racist PCs - I remember playing a racist elf (against basically all non-Sun Elves) once, and dwarves with an issue with elves are always fun to play. However, the stereotype of a race always described as evil without any other reason than them being different and the setting needing humanoid monsters is a nono for me. I would also not allow clearly racist PCs to be any good alignment.

In the real world, I have had quite a variety of players, and I can't remember the last time I had an all German-speaking round (may happen soon though). My most diverse group was 11 people with ancestry from Japan to Native Indian (yes, in Germany) with the really odd one out being a Tibetan. I have never run into comments like "wow black people play?" or the like, either. The guy who taught me and my friends how to play was Native Indian US army So it never occurred to me that the hobby was supposedly predominantly white until I got online a lot.

Oh ignore the typo... Didn't notice the cat killed 2 letters.

Oh, please not yet another one of these type of post. If you are white than I suggest move to South Africa for a bit and these liberal, egalitarian concerns, which you preach about under the guise/cover of a game forum, will cease... Getting tired of this 'types' of threads and than getting labeled as a 'bad' person if not agreeing with them. Problem is most gamers have no idea what the hell is really going on outside of the gaming table and away from their media controlled networks... Sheep?

 

[Morrus]

Oh, please not yet another one of these type of post. If you are white than I suggest move to South Africa for a bit and these liberal, egalitarian concerns,

Simply how many times do I have to tell you to cut this out? Warnings get ignored, and temp bans just bounce off, clearly; so I think it's time you left EN World, MrHemlocks. Jeez, dude, I hate it when people just keep pushing until I'm left without any other choice having exhausted every other course of action. Feel free to tell yourself it's for whatever reason makes it easier for you (censorship, political agendas, can't face teh trooof!, whatever takes your fancy - there's a standard menu to choose from), and I wish you well wherever you end up posting, but for everyone else: a reminder of the no politics rules, and a reminder not to try telling other people what sort of threads they're allowed to start.

 

[Lwaxy]

Klingons aren't black Japanese people.

Seriously, some linked Klingons to Japanese? First time I hear that. Around here they tend to be compared to Czar-era Russians.

 

[Janx]

Seriously, some linked Klingons to Japanese? First time I hear that. Around here they tend to be compared to Czar-era Russians.

Really? The klingons are so japanese/barbarian rip-off they poop sushi. Bear in mind, we're talking TNG/DS9 era klingons.

I never heard of them being compared to russians ever.

 

[saskganesh]

Next time I play, I'll be sure to measure everyone's skulls, so we can determine what race they are. I'm sure that will lead to better poll results.

 

[Janx]

Racism in the real world is bad.

If the party is "good", I expect to not have any PCs act like members of the KKK.

As GM, I may have a blatantly racist race to act as the obvious racist jerks/evil race that you can kill (like Orcs).

I might make a rivalry between "good races" that might show some NPCs acting like jerks, but not out outright villains. An elven shopkeep who "doesn't serve your kind" might be an example (and that's as far as it goes, so he's a jerk exercising his rights as a shop owner, not a terrorist). In such situations, I may shift such jerk personalities based on player behavior. In a Disney moment, the heroic party of Dwarves may just change his mind through their selfless actions despite his jerky treatment toward them.

In a PC party, I might accept two PCs begrudgingly working together (because of their race's background), but I won't accept it being used to justify jerky behavior amongst the party. There's saying your PCs don't like each other, then there's actively disrupting another player's fun. That would be the line.

In general play, this kind of thing doesn't come up. Races with Evil in the alignment description gets portrayed as evil (justifying the alignment description), and the party is legally free to kill them in most situations because they all are caught in the act of being evil.

Stuff without evil in the alignment tends to be nice or not based on their personality or the PCs reputation, rather than the PCs races.

I avoid certain gender issues. I avoid certain racial issues. It's just not what we're there to game for

 

[MJS]

Really? The klingons are so japanese/barbarian rip-off they poop sushi. Bear in mind, we're talking TNG/DS9 era klingons.

I never heard of them being compared to russians ever.

The Russian thing relates to TOS era, height of the Cold War. TOS was exploring issues of Communism, but I don't recall it in the early Klingons. But any enemy of the Federation would likely be though of as Commies back then to some people.
Star Trek is a slight deviation, as it conciously deals with human issues, whereas D&D's brushing up against racism and sexism is more a systemic/cultural, and not usually the stuff of adventure or topic of a module.
TrekBBS is a fine forum if you've any interest in this topic in Star Trek. Occasionally you even get production crew or writers posting there.

 

[Janx]

The Russian thing relates to TOS era, height of the Cold War. TOS was exploring issues of Communism, but I don't recall it in the early Klingons. But any enemy of the Federation would likely be though of as Commies back then to some people.
Star Trek is a slight deviation, as it conciously deals with human issues, whereas D&D's brushing up against racism and sexism is more a systemic/cultural, and not usually the stuff of adventure or topic of a module.
TrekBBS is a fine forum if you've any interest in this topic in Star Trek. Occasionally you even get production crew or writers posting there.

Good point. I think it's hard to see the TOS klingons as anything but humans in faux chainmail shirts. They struck me more as a Mongolian Horde stereotype. Overall, they were too loosely defined back then. ST3 & TNG seemed to rectify that by remaking them.

 

[Umbran]

Really? The klingons are so japanese/barbarian rip-off they poop sushi.

I don't see that at all. The modern "Japanese" and "barbarian" archetypes/stereotypes are kind of mutually exclusive. Sure, Klingons are about honor, but they are also about barely restrained anger, rather than personal discipline. Worf, specifically, may be like a Samurai, but not the rest of the Klingons.

I never heard of them being compared to russians ever.

The Klingons? No. The Romulans are much closer to the Soviets. Klingons are far too open, while the Romulans have the whole secret-thing going for them.