Raise dead issue

[noretoc]

I have a problem with the way raise dead is handled in 3rd edition. If this has been brought up before, I am sorry for the rehash, I haven't read anything on it yet though.

With the raise dead spell and the resurrection spell, it seems that dying isn't quite the penalty. There are times my players get into a situation, and they think, "is it worth dying and losing a level" for. I really don't like them having this choice. (The party had a cleric who can now cast raise dead, so as long as there is a body, they will get raised). Now I know the easy answer is to make a quest to get raised, or take out the raises completely, but because there are so many deadly effects and spells, which threaten characters at their level, They would be losing characters often.

My games tend to be very role-playing oriented. Each character has a background and plots and subplots. They work very hard on them and the way they mature, and I hate to see the character come down to a failed saving throw. Also if I had a quest to raise dead, it becomes "Oh, Mythrus died again, back to the underworld. Incanus will know us by name now"

Does anyone else have this problem? Has anyone figured out a way to fix it. I had thought of a few things. Making the penalty harder, lose xp and Con. (this way they can’t just recover after a few adventures). Forcing an alignment change (the view on the other side changes a person) (- I don't like forcing players to play a certain alignment though)

If anyone has suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

[Eryx]

I have a problem with the way raise dead is handled in 3rd edition. If this has been brought up before, I am sorry for the rehash, I haven't read anything on it yet though.

With the raise dead spell and the resurrection spell, it seems that dying isn't quite the penalty. There are times my players get into a situation, and they think, "is it worth dying and losing a level" for.

Although my situation was different to yours, it might offer some insight.

Players thinking through OOC actions like you mention above are (to me at least) not good roleplaying. Knowing that your character can be raised and being fairly certain of it to the point that you put your character into a situation he/she wouldn't normally go into is bad roleplaying.

As a DM I decided that after the first raise/ress, unless the character has a great destiny still before him or has some truely important deed left to complete (and I don't mean the rest of the adventure) then the gods refuse to allow that soul back to the mortal plane.

This forces the players to play their characters more cautiously and not to just rush in unless it is in their character's nature.

 

[shilsen]

I'm using the following house rule in my campaign.

When a character is brought back from the dead, he loses XP equal to (his level - 1) x 1000. For example, a 5th level PC will lose 4000 XP when resurrected. A first level PC may not be brought back from the dead. This XP loss may lead to a reduction in level, with the usual results. The PC also permanently loses 1 point of Constitution. This XP and Con loss may not be repaired by any mortal spell, not even Wish or Miracle.

It achieves some things that the current raise dead rules don't, some of which have to do with game mechanics and others don't. Firstly, it has a fixed XP loss depending on the level at which the character died, so if one dies with 14,999 XP (1 less than 6th) and one dies at 10,001 XP (1 more than 5th), they don't come back with the same XP total, which they do under the current rules. Secondly, the permanent loss of Con makes it a much more serious deal.

From a roleplaying perspective, getting someone outside the party to cast a raise dead spell is extremely difficult, and even if you manage to do so, it wil probably require substantial payment of some kind (usually not cash). Also, there is a possibility that a raise dead will simply not work, depending on the character, his deity, etc. So while raise dead does remain as an option, it's not an easy one.

 

[The Kender]

I guess I was kind of mean to my players. I made them have to get to Mt. Celestia. THEN cast Raise Dead.

 

[noretoc]

I like some of the idea, but how do you deal with the issue that it is so easy to get killed. I mean, my players are pretty smart about getting into situation they cant get out of. They always leave a way out, and set themselves up in a way that lessens the danger as much as they can, but there are so many spells out there that can kill, that simply rely on the roll of a die. If I make raising harder or permenant, than the party mage happens to fail that one saving throw against finger of death, all the work he put into the character is done. I can understand the risk, but I hate to see the whole of the character's adventuring career, and all of the players work come down to a die roll.

 

[zilch]

IMC, Ressurection can only with the gods permission. And even then, they come back different...
Think the latest season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

 

[ùìéè äîáåê]

IMC

I hvae not ecountered that problem in 3E yet, as my players are not of high level. But I intend to have the raise-dead spells take up a whole day to cast, and have very high XP penalties to the CASTER (as well as a high gp price). That way, the cleric isn't likely to go around raising all his friends - it just costs too much, both in monetary and more importantly in XP. He just doesn't have so much XP to spend, and if he would spend a lot of it - he should stay behind the rest of the party, so those thinking OOC will tend to think twice before doing it.
I have not decided on a price, but a 5,000 XP and some 1,000 gp or so is what I was thinking. I haven't given the exact price too much thought, though.

 

[Eryx]

I can understand the risk, but I hate to see the whole of the character's adventuring career, and all of the players work come down to a die roll.

Death, petrification, disintigration...etc, are the risks that adventurers face whenever they go out on a quest. The characters know this and the players should as well.

If you don't let the dice fall where they do (albit with some minor fudging if you so wish), then you are not holding true to those risks. Players will pick up on that and whether they realise it or not, will use that against you.

I would suggest you limit the raising/ressing of the dead in one way or another (See previous posters comments) and let the dice fall as they do.

 

[jasamcarl]

Well...

As some have mentioned, raise dead/true res are somewhat vital to maintaining character continuity and the fun of the 'game.' The simply solution is to place some rp 'fluff' around the casting of these spells to make the point that the practics is not common and that your players are 'special.'

Really, there is no reason to change the mechanics of the spell and screw with game balance when you can treat those same mechanics as an 'abstraction' and contrive the 'flavor' yourself...

 

[reiella]

Clerics always make a good first tactical target.

For that reason by itself, as well as that their healing and buffing can really over power them.

Also something to coisder is to use 'end games' that are different from simple death. Flesh to Stone, freezing, Imprisonment. etc