Raising ability scores

[Oryan77]

Where in the books does it describe whether or not things like hit points & skill points are or are not retroactive when you gain points to ability scores?

Also, where does it mention this similar point in regards to using magic items that raise ability scores?

I know the rules, but I don't know how I know them because I can't even find where it talks about that in the PHB or DMG.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Where in the books does it describe whether or not things like hit points & skill points are or are not retroactive when you gain points to ability scores?

Also, where does it mention this similar point in regards to using magic items that raise ability scores?

I know the rules, but I don't know how I know them because I can't even find where it talks about that in the PHB or DMG.

PHB, p. 58 under "Level Advancement."

For #4, Ability Scores, it mentions retroactive hit points for a con bonus increase.

For #6, Skill Points, it says explicitly that spells and magic items like headband of intellect don't count. It doesn't say not to retroactively add new int ot old skill points from previous level ups, but it does say to use your "current" score at each level up, and does not explicitly say to use it retroactively like it does for con and hit points.

 

[parinho7]

about skill points:

from ph3.5 page 10:

When an ability score changes, all attributes associated with that
score change accordingly. For example, when Mialee becomes a 4thlevel
wizard, she decides to increase her Intelligence score to 16.
That score gives her a 3rd-level bonus spell (which she’ll pick up
upon attaining 5th level, when she becomes able to cast 3rd-level
spells), and it increases the number of skill points she gets per level
from 4 to 5 (2 per level for her class, plus another 3 per level from
her Intelligence bonus). As a new 4th-level character, she can get
the skill points immediately after raising her Intelligence, so she’ll
get 5 points for attaining 4th level in the wizard class. She does not
retroactively get additional points for her previous levels (that is,
skill points she would have gained if she had had an Intelligence​

score of 16 starting at 1st level).

 

[Runestar]

Technically, you don't get hp added retroactively when your con improves.

But then again, it is just a pet peeve I have with the use of the "retroactively", rather than its intent.

 

[Herzog]

Technically, you don't get hp added retroactively when your con improves.

Correct.
You get 1 hp per con bonus per level. You don't need to get the hp added retroactively.
similarly, your hp drop when your con is reduced.
There is some small issue with getting at least 1 hp per level, which means you technically should keep track of your exact rolls to find out how much hp you really lose or gain when your con improves.
Example: you have a -2 con modifier. Your first lvl you gain 1d4-2 = 2 hp.
Your second and third level you roll 1's, ending up with 4 hp.
At lvl 4, you roll a 1 again. You decide to improve your CON (which was uneven) so your con modifier is now -1.
You would think this would get you 4 hp, but it doesn't. you get 1 hp for the reduced penalty at lvl 1, but the 1's at lvl 2,3 and 4 remain below par, so 1.
You end up with 6 hp....

Skill ranks are gained when you gain a level. This gain is tied to a specific moment in time. You do not automatically gain skill points when your int improves. You do not 'retroactively' gain skillpoints either (meaning you do not gain skill points for an int bonus now regarding levels you have already gained)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You also don't lose any skill points when your int is lowered by poison or something else.

Redundant, I know, but may as well have it be said.

If you're still suffering from a lower int at the point you level up, it could cause some issues, but I don't see many reasonable DMs holding things like "not yet completely healed temporary ability damage" against you...

 

[Herzog]

AFAIK, levelling up may be done at any time you choose.
So you can postpone levelling until you are completely restored....

 

[milo]

Pathfinder has a good way of handling the Int items. The item has 1 skill tied to it per +2 bonus and when you put it on you get max ranks in that skill. They are determined when created and if you don't decide it is one randomly rolled knowledge skill. Helps with people trying to abuse the int items for skill points.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Pathfinder has a good way of handling the Int items. The item has 1 skill tied to it per +2 bonus and when you put it on you get max ranks in that skill. They are determined when created and if you don't decide it is one randomly rolled knowledge skill. Helps with people trying to abuse the int items for skill points.

That sounds...needlessly complicated.

When I allow int items to grant skill points, I follow a simple rule: You had to have worn it for most (over 50%) of the previous level before levelling up. Purposely left vague so I (the DM) can make judgement calls on whether (in game) time worn or how much xp was gained with it on versus off is the more important factor to consider. Taking it off or putting it on momentarily does nothing to affect total skill points.

 

[milo]

That sounds...needlessly complicated.

When I allow int items to grant skill points, I follow a simple rule: You had to have worn it for most (over 50%) of the previous level before levelling up. Purposely left vague so I (the DM) can make judgement calls on whether (in game) time worn or how much xp was gained with it on versus off is the more important factor to consider. Taking it off or putting it on momentarily does nothing to affect total skill points.

Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours
the headband is worn. A headband of vast intelligence has one
skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn
for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in
those skills equal to the wearer’s total Hit Dice. These ranks do
not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These
skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is
listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly
determined Knowledge skills.

Not really that complex. It clears up complaints about the item and gets rid of any ambiguity or questions about how it works.

Edit: The abusing the item for skills that I was talking about was wearing the item for skills, taking it off and putting it back on for different skills. I know that this isn't how it functions by RAW, but I have seen more than one DM allow it.