Rake/grapple question

[Lord_SZadek]

Hi there, I'm completely confused about this grapple/rake thing from some animals (like leopard).

What i understood is that on each successful bite attack (for leopard speaking) he can start a grapple as free action. What i didn't get is : if Leopard wins will it immediately roll the 2xrake dmg, or have to "establish" the hold so it will roll next round? Does it need to win the grapple next round also? Is there a chance to miss?(does leopard make an attack roll or rolls straight for the damage?)


I would really love a detailed explanation from the studied community about how this whole thing works



thanks in advance, Lord_Szadek

 

[Dandu]

Oh, this is going to be a fun one.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'll try. First of all, the text of Rake:

"A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a monster with the rake ability usually gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. Rake attacks are not subject to the usual -4 penalty for attacking with a natural weapon in a grapple.

A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn. "

So, to answer your questions...

1. You have to begin your turn grappling to use Rake, so the turn you establish the grapple you would not deal Rake damage, unless you also charged that round, as that also qualifies you to Rake. See the text for Pounce:

"When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability."

In any case, you do not get to use your rake attacks more than once per turn, even if you somehow met the "charge" and "start your turn in a grapple" qualifications. They're still a pair of natural weapons, and you only get one attack with each of them. For reference, see how a Ranger with Favored Enemy Evil Outsider +4 and Chaotic Outsider +2 would only get +4 against a demon, despite being doubly qualified.

2. Once you're grappling, you'r grappling. Until someone succeeds at breaking out of it. Or, logically, if both sides wish to let go of each other. Rake only requires that you be grappling, it does not even seem to require that you be *winning* the grapple at that moment.

3. Every single entry for rake, including the Leopard, lists an attack bonus for the Rake attack. It is therefore safe to conclude that you need to roll to hit like with any other natural attack.

 

[Lord_SZadek]

very nice, very detailed. Feels that all gaps are filled.

thanks alot for the overview, was really helpful