Range attack rule discusion

[cbbakke]

First off, I have been very impressed with a lot of the input provided on this board. Most boards are full of trolls or people who jsut want to argue. I made a post on "Minions" and got some great ideas from it.

So now to the point of this post. I really see a big flaw with how ranged attacks work with cover from creatures and players.

Flaws I see
1. Part of the tanks jobs are to protect their healers and casters and control the battle field but tanks cannot provide any real physical protection against range attacks except a -2 (10% to miss). Most casters have such a low AC that this is pretty meaningless at later levels.

2. That you can fire through allies with no penalty. I realize it makes things easier but I think it is also very flawed.

Scenario.
Numbers = monsters
letters = players

-------------------
12 3A b
--------------------
The picture above is a fight in a narrow hallway. 3 and "A" are engaged and 1, 2 and "B" are at range. 1 and 2 are in adjacent squares.

For B to fire at "3" he has no penalty for cover but to fire at 1 and 2 he would have -2.

Here is the concept flaws I see.
It is no harder for B to hit:
I) 3 then without his ally (A) in the way.
II) It is no harder to hit 1 then 2.

I know the graph is kind of confusing to look at so I hope this makes since for my ideas.

Rule ideas
-If an ally of the attack is adjacent to the target of ranged attack then it counts as cover.

- If an enemy is adjacent to the target it moves up the defense one catorgory.

Suggested Ideas.

Same picture

-------------------
12 3A b
--------------------
So if
B shoots 3 it is -2 (ally is in the way)
B shoots 2 it is -2 (Enemy is in the way and ally)
B shoots 1 it is -5 ( full cover from enemies being adjacent to 2)

2 shoots A would be at -2 (for ally adjecent)
2 shoots B would be at -2 (for cover from A)

My logic is kind of like football. The QB comes back to the pocket and gets ready to the throw the ball. The defensive line distracts him some but he can throw it over their heads to the guy way down field but for him to throw the ball to a runningback who is standing right behind them is far more difficult.

On the other end, If my target is standing at the 20 yard line and another person is at the 30 yardline and I am at the 40 yard line, the middle player doesnt effect my pass very much. But if my target has another person standing right in front of him it makes it far far more difficult to get to them.


Benefit
I think it will add a little more tactics to the range aspect of the the battle field and will allow tanks to be more effective at protecting the cloth wearers but will make those cloth members get more in the fray for that protection.

I know this may be hard to read but I hope it gets the point accross.

Thoughts?

 

[Bigwilly]

Characters are assumed to be moving around in combat. So:

B shoots 3 is no penalty, he simply waits for an opening.
B shoots 2 is a -2 as per the rules
B shoots 1 is a -2 as per the rules

For the last case you could apply additional modifiers for cover/concealment especially if 1 states he is hiding behind 2. In this case you could also just rule that B can only target 3 or 2.

 

[James McMurray]

Casters don't usually have low ACs. Divine casters get armor. Arcane casters use their Intelligence or Dexterity, whichever is higher. This leaves Warlocks somewhat in trouble if they're not an Int build, but other than that, ACs are pretty close to one another, with wizards even pulling ahead at some levels (assuming they take the obvious choice of leather armor for a feat).

 

[Stalker0]

I would also like to second that casters don't really have a low AC, except maybe the warlock, and he has other things to help him out.

Disregarding that for a moment though, in 4e the game is designed so that people don't only miss on a 1 and don't only hit on a 20 (there's some debate as to whether this still happens at the highest levels, but for most of the game this holds true).

That means a -2 to attacks is a -2 to attacks is a -2 to attacks. Even if my wizard can get hit on a roll of a 5, if the defenders mark makes it so the creature needs a 7...that's still 10% less chance on the die roll that he will hit me.

And of course, defenders tend to be pretty good against archers. If a fighter marks an archer, he's done for. Shifting provokes an attack, attacking the fighter provokes an OA, and attacking someone else without shifting provokes 2 attacks!!

A paladin can force autodamage on an archer and a -2 to attack rolls. With with charging, its not hard for defenders to get into the back line.